Interview 6 // Patrick Lichty

And record to the cloud and we're recording. Okay, today is Wednesday, February 17th. My name is Colin Goldberg and I'm here today with artist Patrick Lichty.

Hi there, great.

Good. Hey Patrick, thanks for coming. So, I guess we'll get right into it if you want to just tell us a little bit about your background. I mean, you know, you and I came to know each other through the MFA program at Bowling Green, computer art. So, you know, I know a little bit about your background, but if you want to share with the internet, you know, about where you were born, where you live in practice now and that kind of stuff.

Yeah, I was born in a suburb of Akron, Ohio, where Devo came from. You're kind of into new wave and punk and all that sort of thing. And actually, first 10 years of my life, I grew up in literally within about, within visual distance of the Goodyear Zeppelin Air Dock, which they, you know, that's where they held, you know, the five airships that Goodyear and Zeppelin actually made, you know, in the 1920s. And then we moved to North Canton, Ohio, which is where they made Hoover vacuum cleaners. So, and that area is also where Marilyn Manson's from. So, you know, it was kind of... It's kind of an interesting thing.

Patrick Lichty

So, you know, my mom was an artist. I was sort of raised in the atmosphere of art and intellectualism and all that. But, you know, they wanted me to be practical. So I got a digital engineering degree from the University of Akron. And after about, I worked myself through and I was about five, six years in the field. And I just said, you know, I... I realized that I wanted to be in art and design. And eventually I just said... Actually, I was with Tandy Computers, Radio Shack. So that was starting to basically close. And so I left that and I basically started working in neon sculpture at Kent State University.

Patrick Lichty

And so this is an interesting thing is that, you know, I basically majored... I was an art major for about a year at the end of my engineering degree. But my mom taught me. And I started doing glass sculpture. And in the 90s, early 90s, you know, I was doing a lot of print work and all that. And where I kind of come into this, and this is kind of, you know... And what's interesting is that this is... I'm kind of short-circuiting one of the other questions that I know you want to ask. But what happens is that I just realized that...

Patrick Lichty

I actually have... I have a form of retinitis pigmentosa. And doctors basically told me that I was going to go blind by 30. And, you know, all this notion of practicality in my life... You know, I just kind of felt like this was tenuous at best anyway. So what happened is that I wound up, you know, in a situation in which...

Patrick Lichty

I was probably going to be, you know, in a trailing family situation. So I quit engineering. I went into the arts. And basically just, you know, studied informally and just started a contemporary art studio and a design studio during the dot-com era. Kept myself alive. But the thing is, is that I was just asked at one time, if you had, you know, your choice to do anything... That you ever wanted to do. You know, if it was going to... If you had to live in a cardboard box out in the middle of the highway and just do this, what would you do? And I said, I'm going to be an artist.

Patrick Lichty

And then, you know, this is kind of funny is that I'm going to really just kind of weave together a lot of the narrative. Is that in these early days, what I was very interested in... I was very interested in the first wave. I was very interested in people like Monet and Cezanne and Gauguin. And I really got interested in people like the Dadaists and the Surrealists and the Futurists. And then I got really, really interested in the German expressionists like Munter, Kandinsky, you know, Munch, you know, and all that. And I started reading Kandinsky's books, you know, especially considering that... Concerned concerning the spiritual and art. And what I did is I sat down and I did an exercise in which I basically shut myself off from trying to look at all art. Except for just reading this book on his theories of expressionism.

Patrick Lichty

And I just read this and I made this whole body of watercolors. And, you know, and it... By the time... The way feeding into a later part of the conversation is like tech watercolor is a technology and the thing is that you know I kind of got into the notion of you know expressionism you know and so what happens is that kandinsky is at the root of all my painting as far as sensibility notions of form color and all this but you know it's I got my first electronics kit at age seven at age at age 10 my first computer at age 18 and so I think to me I'm kind of a technological native you know having been raised as an artist being forced through a technological milieu and then getting interested in having roots in you know dataism and expressionism which kind of leads me as one of my threads you know into this notion of the subjective experience of expression I mean of art and expression but the thing is that for me using technology as part of my native cultural voice because I grew up on science fiction I've been playing with electronics ever since I was 10 years old it's like you know in other words it in some way or another you know technology is part of my voice so I'd say that kind of lays lays the lays the groundwork of how I resonate with you know I've been playing with electronics for a long time

And I've been playing with you know this whole thing were there any aspects you know in terms of like you know you talked about kandinsky beyond the sort of the aesthetics of his work and any kind of formal visual components of his work I mean are there philosophical aspects to the writing that you found you know interesting in the way that you or you know have you incorporated that sort of line of thinking into what sort of content drives the work or you know what it's about

Well sure I mean I mean and I mean I have several body several kind of like threads of work and a lot of it has to do with this notion of mediation in other words like you know the you know expressionist side is the idea of like you know mediating the subjective you know so I mean the thing is that kandinsky always you know was talking about the idea of mediating the inner state I mean so I think also kirchner especially so I was very much a fan of like you know these guys like you know there were two expressionist groups in germany the blue rider and the bridge to brooke and the Blau Reiter. And so I'm very much kind of a Blau Reiter sort. And so what happens is that, you know, that, so really what's interesting to me is, you know, how Kandinsky thinks about the communication of the inner emotional state, you know, through the work, through notions of color and form.

Patrick Lichty

And that's especially considering this spiritual and art and then he also did a book called the clang sounds so these are writings and they're also performances which actually I co-produced one in 1990 with a yellow sound was well I think the fifth time it would had been done at kent state and so what's interesting about that is that you know this was sort of like as theater was dr cow dr calagari was to you know cinema and I think and then also I'm like a huge fan of but you know of people like antonine artote who are you know people who are really you know you're looking at delving into you know the internal emotional state and trying to get it out to me I'm saying it's like how do I how do I do this in a way you know that deals with the notion of mediation that trans you know that translates onto whatever medium you're doing and to be perfectly honest I don't think there's to mean operationally there are some differences and culturally the and I'm culturally and contextually there's some differences between you know digital and other things other things but you know I think the idea of I think the idea of translation and mediation I think is specific to me but I think as far as like this idea of Techspressionism the way I kind of translate a little bit of kandinsky is saying that kandinsky said that art is a you know is a product of its time and I think that's something that's especially notable for what we're doing here in you know in this particular project because and I say project because I wonder about whether movements are possible in this day and age but

Right or if they're even something that people can you

Know like

It's seems like people outside of the movement in the historically have been the people that define any certain impetus as a movement rather than the people involved in it you know what I mean so yeah I get what you're saying it seems a little dicey and yeah I see it as a project as well in a lot of ways I mean closer to being a project than you know it to me it's up to somebody

External to see it as a movement really I mean you know you know what I say this very gently I totally disagree is yes absolutely because if you look at things like the dadaists the futurists the surrealists and that sort of thing these were probably primarily driven by ideologies that were that were adopted by the group through manifesting and that's the thing in other words it is in other words it's like the early avant-garde who were forming movements as such and they were not the ones who were doing the you know we're looking we're looking at them as supremely political political positions and right the thing is that going from kandinsky rhetorically into today I'm you know I this is the reason why I kind of look at Techspressionism as kind of a self-emerging project that is the one thing that I when I when we talk to our artists around here is I'm just sometimes I'm wondering what their intentionality is in other words are they looking at you know are they you know are they just thinking about you know how they're expressing emotion or the thing is that you know are they looking at it almost from that art historical perspective of the of the expressionists of the early 20th century even or the abstract expressionists really trying to get that like pollock did you know trying to get that jazz out you

Know right yeah I mean you know the idea I mean I you know when I when I drafted the first version of the manifesto I think the intentionality or the intent was that it be the philosophical basis for a movement yeah but who gets to say if it actually is one you know that's the tough question you know like it's it seems you know I mean I don't know if there's really a point in trying to figure that out but well

No I and I think I think actually some of the writing I'm working on for the group at the moment is that you know rather than trying to be another zara or another you know breton or someone like that you know it's like I think it's really just a matter of maybe just trying to invite you know a reflection you know and saying you know guess what this is the history of from which we come and you know and it used to be about the idea of trying to change society but the thing is that you know we're in a different period you know we're in a different period of time and the sensibilities are radically different but the thing is that the notion of wanting to see what's inside us and communicate it you know we're in a different period of time and we're in a is one thing but then also on the other hand is that then how we see technology technology as an as a man as a matter of agent in order to do this and what do we see as technology you know so the thing is that really as far as I'm concerned is you know what the co-founders of this thing is rather than saying that this is a manifesto driven thing to follow the follow the world this is a continuation I'd say of a tradition that asks people to consider in a in a day and age in which we think that technology is alienating us and from our you know from our inner selves and you know our feelings and our connections with others especially in the I think we're definitely linked to a covid-based impulse you know I mean you know the idea of saying like how does this inner notion of expression you know through various forms of technology and the one thing that I'm kind of begging begging the argument of is saying is that I'm just don't think that computers completely you know you know the digital and computers completely encompass what we're doing

You know

It's part of a continuum for sure yeah I see it that way and I think you know like the manifesto like in some ways you know the reason I initially wanted to create a manifesto was you know in effect to change society in some specific ways the most important of which to me is the fact that technology-based art does not have the same degree of validity in within the sort of you know the establishment art culture that you know traditional art forms have and that's a prejudice that I've encountered that I'm sure you've encountered and basically almost everybody that's been drawn to this group has expressed that's what they identify with is that they've tried to get their work out there someone said oh you mean you pressed a button button and the computer did it for you.

Colin Goldberg

Sorry, we're not interested in that type of work. And they moved on, you know, like that, that reaction is something that I'm very familiar with. And, you know, I mean, that's a very small, you know, it's probably not very important to many people in society other than people making work with technology. But, you know, it's important to me.

The thing is that I mean I mean if you're dealing within you know if you're dealing within fairly you know well I mean let's put this way I would really kind of say this is really kind of very traditional approach but the thing that I would I would argue is that there are people like omar halif you know and kalani nicole who runs transfer out in out in los angeles and steve sacks who runs bit forms the thing is out in new york I mean I mean out in manhattan chelsea so the thing that I'm looking at here is that you know with and especially with the younger digital artists you know there's this notion of post-internet art that you know the term attributed to marissa olson about the idea of like art that deals with effects after the net is largely traditional media you know digital print you know a lot of it's digital print a lot of things you know like and includes things like vaporwave and all that sort of thing but what's but what's happening with this is that I'd say ever since the late 2000s there has been a significant movement that in which artists dealing with digital culture have been using traditional media to you know you know inject themselves into the contemporary art conversation and the thing is that I really I really and especially now with the covid situation not only I'd say digitally inspired culture through contemporary media you know and now the thing is the notion of digitally based art you know and online art and you know electronic electronically based art I think I think that there is by necessity a an emergence of this that is phenomenal so I mean what so what I'm saying is that to the to all of us within you know our particular group who have a little bit of a who have a bit of a concern you know about the idea of their work not being supported in say for example like you know the you know the gallery that they're wanting to look at, you know, in, you know, at XYZ place and that sort of thing.

Patrick Lichty

I'm saying that in online spaces and in the more future forward galleries and that sort of thing, there's a huge awakening of, of technological work. So the thing is, is that I think, and within the contemporary, say for example, there's a show called The Age of Anxiety at the Charter Art Foundation. Sharjah and out in the United Arab Emirates. And it was curated by Omar Khalif. And there's also another one at the Jameel Art Center in Dubai that was, and this is all kind of like post-internet art that was curated by Shumon Bashar and Hans Ulrich Obrist for God's sakes. You know, so I mean, what's going on here is that, you know, the eye of the contemporary is washing across our particular plane. In other words, the thing is, I'm saying is that, you know, to get out there and be seen because the thing is, is that the art world is living in a world where there's a lot of art.

Patrick Lichty

And people are looking at us. Now, you know, what that means is a different matter.

Yeah. I mean, I think that now, especially with COVID, there's been a major cultural change and getting out there almost means just publishing online, you know, more so than even being in a physical space. Like the whole NFT phenomenon that's happened over the last year or so. Yeah. I mean, it's just remarkable. The amount of commerce being driven through this phenomenon where it's splintered off its own sector of the art industry. Yeah. Like out of necessity, almost, you know, like here's this, here's this community that just

Didn't exist before, you know?

And I look at the culture there. To me, it's very closely related to street art and urban art where people are completely working under pseudonyms and it's outside of the tradition. It's a traditional art establishment. And yet, you know, if you look at the amount of actual commerce happening within that sector of the art market, and I'm sure plenty of people within the art industry wouldn't consider it even part of the art market. But nevertheless, you know, I was looking today on Rarible, the top seller or something like that, you know, 50, I don't know, there's like 50 ethers, you know? Oh my Lord. You know, in one day. Yeah. You know, I mean, and then you look at what happens in even a blue chip gallery space in one day. Yeah. You know, is it equivalent? You know what I mean? Like, it's just a really remarkable phenomenon.

Yeah.

And probably it's a bubble that's going to burst. Oh. Like the Bitcoin bubble, after it burst, guess what? It bubbled back up again. You know what I mean? For the people that held on long enough.

Well, I mean, the thing that's just, you know, just absolutely stunning me today is that I just saw that Bitcoin's up to 51,000. And I mean, you know, when it peaked and burst at 17, I thought, oh, come on, forget this noise, you know? And then, you know, I'm seeing this now. Elon Musk is getting behind it and, you know, and, you know, I now feel like an idiot. I had like two or three and now I'm just saying like, you know, maybe I wouldn't have to have this job.

Right. But I held on for a while. I like held on until I sort of evened out. But I jumped back in a little bit recently just to get involved in NFTs. You know, I had to just get some crypto established again. And, you know, in that short time period, I think what it is now with all these NFT platforms, the amount of action that's happening across like the mainnet, the Ethereum mainnet is just so great. And the level of interest and awareness in Ethereum specifically, Yeah. Has just become so mainstream that, you know, like any sort of asset where there's a fixed, there's a fixed amount, you know, there's only a finite amount of Bitcoin, of Ethereum that could be mined, you know, so it's just the law of supply and demand, you know, whereas, I don't know, like, I feel like it's really, it's strange.

I mean, it's kind of going off on a tangent. And in some of your discussions, I think you mentioned a little bit earlier, one thing I want to kind of put across is that the, yeah, I mean, you and I have slightly different viewpoints on these sorts of things, but they do, I think it's really just sort of like ratios. On one hand, you know, like you and I think, Davonte, you know, talked about the art industry.

Patrick Lichty

Myself, I think that, I mean, I'm thinking much more about art as a community that drives, you know, you know, a rhetoric, you know, which has an industry that's part of that. So in other words, I'm looking at it from a broader cultural perspective. But the thing is there is an industry in it or else, you know, it wouldn't have, you know, the art fairs and things like that. So the thing is, but however, I'm also looking at things that are at, you know, that are not, you know, as economically driven like the wrong biennial and, you know, there and very much like the same thing. Various, you know, you know, art centers, et cetera, you know, say like, like Akisoma and, and Nimi and things like that, that aren't necessarily so, so commercially driven, but, you know, it's, it's, it's all, it's, it's, it's all an ecosystem.

Patrick Lichty

And I think what happens, it's the matter of, but nevertheless, there's a human subjectivity that is in that, in that ecosystem, which, you know, drives the discussion. And part of that's driven by, driven by capitalism. Some of it's driven by, you know, you know, relational capital, you know, and then all these, all these other things.

But I think a lot of the things that are happening within the, the, that aspect though, they are activism in, in some capacity that is, you know, the blockchain was invented as some form of rebellion, you know, against the, the standard fiat currency model of, of the way things run on our planet, you know?

So, and I, and I think that, you know, as we, as a lot of us are, you know, talking about taking, you know, the project into things like NFTs and all that sort of thing, it's like non-fungible tokens and in, in the, in the blockchain as a lot of people are, I think this is, I think this is, I think this is an interesting move.

So I. Oh, I wanted to ask you too, you know, you know, you talked about your, your influences and sort of how you got into Kandinsky and watercolor. So at what point did technology start coming into your work as, you know, like digital computer-based technology technology start coming into your work as a medium or as you know a set of tools or skills that you used in terms of self-expression like when did you make that jump from the watercolor and then I remember when you showed your work on one of the salons you showed some early digital drawings that were maybe around the same time period that were sort of Kandinsky you know driven this

Is weird started doing it at about age 14 before I was doing watercolors. So I was doing, using electronics to make sort of like light organs and that sort of thing. And so what happens is, is that, yeah, in other words, I was sort of like making light sculpture, like in my early.

It reminds me of your MFA show. I remember there were a lot of like blinking boxes and the digital minimalism sort of concept that was in, in a lot of that work, you know?

So, I mean, really what happens is that for me, what I, you know, I'm, I mean, the thing is, is I think that, you know, ever since I was a child, I think that there's always been this, this a sensibility that's just, that was developing, but just wound up awakening, you know, later on in, in. You know, in my twenties. So, so the thing is, is to say that there was a specific time that something came about or anything like that. I said, maybe, you know, I mean, really, it's just a matter of saying my early work was just terrible derivative stuff.

Patrick Lichty

But the whole thing is, is that, you know, as, as one learns, you know, one.

Sort of a hardware and software were you using when you made it? When you made those drawings?

I was using a, well, at first I was using, at first I was using an Atari 800 and using, I was using Atari 800 and I was using basic programming language, you know, to do my first drawings.

And then. Were you just doing like ASCII, sort of ASCII art in a way or?

No, no, no, no. I was, I was using, I was using, I was using pixels, you know?

Gotcha. And so. Peek and poke. And all that stuff. I remember doing some coding on my Commodore.

And there was, there was also a, there was also a paint program with a Koala pad. And I was, I was, I was painting with that.

But.

I had a Koala pad as well.

And then, yeah, I think I really started doing things, you know, kind of halfway seriously on a, on a Hewlett Packard Linux system in the, I mean, I got into it, you know, like in the eighties. But I just. Never thought that I could do anything as an artist. So I think really where I was starting to go at, I was using things in the early nineties, like I was using Kai's power tools and I was using, was it PCX? Was it, it was PC paintbrush or something like that. And Corel of course. And so, and then, you know, Photoshop when it came out.

Patrick Lichty

And. That was when I started coming up with my own ideas for things that I wanted to do. You know, so I, you know, I think really a lot of this is, you know, was just really just noodling around with a bunch of things. But the thing is, is that I kind of look at three things. I kind of look at like the methodology as you know, as how you make this stuff and then the content, the, the intention or the. You know, or the idea. And then I forgot what the third thing, but it's there. But the thing is, is that what happens is, is that I think that no matter what I was doing or what software I was using, you know, there, it was, it was trying to communicate. I was trying to communicate the certain intentionality.

Patrick Lichty

In other words, kind of, you know, what it was to, you know, what it was, what it was to how to like do this mediated sort of making on, on, on at first in screens. And I started working in video and then, and then in 3D space. And then 3D space, you know, leads to VR and 3D print and all of these sorts of things. And one thing that I think is very interesting to me is at the, at this point is, you know, AI and glitch and generativity and all these sorts of things, which is kind of a, a partnership between you and the machine.

Patrick Lichty

And, you know, in other words, basically you using the processes of the machine as a medium or the processes of networked interactions as a, as a medium. Rather than. You know, rather than the more direct way of mark making.

Right. So when you say like the work is about mediation, would you say like you're, you're speaking to the process and the medium that you're working in as the subject matter of the work, or is it something more about sort of like whatever's going on in your sort of inner emotional state of the time just with that as being a means of expression. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, to me, it's always layered. I mean, I'm always asking a question, you know, in other words, to me, it's almost like, almost like a research paper. You know, you have this idea, then you ask a question and then you see what your results are. I mean, I'm always been process based. So what happens is that.

Patrick Lichty

Yeah. Yeah. So. You know what? Okay. Restate the question and I'll jump back in.

Like, you know, I know that you mentioned like mediation is being sort of like a, like a subject of the work.

And then. Process. You know, I mean.

Is it, is it sort of like, you know, the medium is the message to use an overused.

Well, I mean, I'm a child of the first wave of avant-garde. I mean, definitely. So, I mean, you know, my influences are primarily like expressions and data. And then data that goes down into like Japanese data, which was the good time movement, which was response to. World war two as data was a responsible for one. And then fluxes, which was kind of, you know, kind of almost like, you know, Zen Zen data, good tie, you know, in the, you know, like with cap row and, and John cage and that sort of thing. And, and.

Patrick Lichty

Machinist, which, you know, I, I have, I have. A lot of ties to, you know, that, that directly. And so what happens is that, you know, this is, there, there are two things is that, so. You know, like one thing that I like to do is, I mean, I, I love to work with generative, adversarial networks currently. And.

And then I know that you're under a time restraint, Patrick, do you want to pull up some images on the screen and talk about them?

Yes. I want to make sure. I want to make sure that, we get to see some of your work too.

I know we're having, we're having all these, we're having all these great, philosophical conversations. And we're not, we're not seeing any of the work. So yeah, here's, by the way, here's some of this early work that was done with like PC paint brushing and style eye and that sort of thing. Some of the, some of the early work. And then, you know, like processes, I started dealing with these, this is in the two thousands. I started dealing with these little autonomous.

I don't know if I'm seeing your screen here.

Let me see here. Hang on. Okay. Sorry. I thought I was, let me.

Oh, there we go. Okay.

Okay. So this is some of the early work, you know, you can see the Kansas ski references and all that sort of thing. Very, very clearly. And, I think there's probably done with PC paint brush or, or even Corral and,. And see where that's kind of going. And then this is like 1995 maybe. And you know, it's, I was just kind of wondering how to going back into mediation, the idea of like, you know, what are the limitations of digital print versus, you know, and, and working with, working with, digital media versus, you know, traditional media. Yeah. And, and, you know, working with, working with these issues of mark making informed and all that sort of thing. And then, which by the way, doesn't have to do necessarily with my critical work, but this is sort of like my artist work.

Patrick Lichty

And then I started working with these, autonomous rovers starting in about early two thousands. Because I had met this, artist who I'm living now, you know, near name. Roman Brosco when I was living in the twin cities and I would just, I just loved his, his, plotter work so much. And, and he kind of encouraged me to kind of like find my own direction with these things. And I found these things and basically what the idea was is that I'd set up an algorithm and this would sense the, you know, the lightness of the paper or sense the, I put boundaries around it and it would just keep using this. This set of. The process is to go back and forth and all that sort of thing. And the biggest piece that I did was this is a 21 by seven piece that, I called man machine interface and the red is, is me and all the black is the machine.

Patrick Lichty

And, you know, in other words, I've, I've always wondered, you know, what, where am I between the, between the process. I mean, I've always wondered what, where am I between the process and the red is the machine and my own subjectivity. And what time period was this piece made. This was made in 2003 actually.

Patrick Lichty

Gotcha. Do you still have it? Yeah, it's actually in my storage container in Ohio, actually. So it's, it's rolled up. It's a little crumpled on the sides, but it's, I'll probably slice that off and, and get that up someplace.

So did you work? I mean, did you spend time with Roscoe directly?

Yeah. Yeah. But you know, he was one of my early mentors. Yeah.

Yeah. He's on the big, I'm a big fan.

His work is amazing. I have a few of his pieces. He gave me, he's, he's, he's a really, really, really, really amazing person.

Yeah. His work was the first time I ever really saw plodder drawings, you know, as used as art, you know, that, that I saw like art made with plotters and it just blew my mind how he was able to mount. I mean, he used, just traditional drawing implements. Right. Right. Yeah.

Spotters yeah and I mean he's my primary inspiration there's another guy chaperon from the twin cities as well who does motion control as well as he wound up selling that sand table with the he did he did indiegogo for that sand table with the with the marble that would then go and make these designs and that sort of thing I think that was bruce how

Did you code those robots I mean like what would you do to actually write the code and then you put like a I mean sim in the in the actual robot or like how would that

No it was just you just upload it to the serial port and it just had basically had like a was

It eprom it's

Called

Or something like that totally

Yep man you know it's old school you know so it had its own processor and it had some had some flash ram and you just went for it nice I remember seeing you

With those drawing machines back in bowling green when I when I first got there and you had it sort of in the lobby I think of the art building and

They

Were just like roving around you

Know

And I was like that's pretty cool that

Was that was that was fun yeah totally and then I started getting into a bit more into what roman you know kind of you know kind of like what roman brosco would call you know I'd call it hard algorithm in other words the idea of looking at the idea of you know using you using algorithms to you know as a primary process for art and what I was doing is I was doing in this case this is a group of post-internet works I called random internet cats and so there were some pieces that some other colleagues did that were commenting upon you know the passage of media and also about internet culture and that sort of thing and this is maybe a little bit flippant

But I like that though I mean it definitely you know that was certainly a phenomenon like just yeah that cats and memes and it's part of internet culture I mean so when you say post-internet art would that be basically any art created after the web was made publicly available or is there some further philosophical way

To define

That term I

I tip my I tip my hat to marissa olsen on this in other words that she that pretty much defined it best and saying that you know art art that's a pros art that is the result of the social technological and you know they just the effects of after the emergence of the internet and I think that marissa was probably maybe talking more about the worldwide web rather

Than

You know the earlier the earlier net and you know just the sort of sensibilities that you see now like one definitely is vaporwave where you have you know that kind of false nostalgia for the 80s you know with the right with the pastel you know magenta and cyan and you know pixels and things like that and

Right there's definitely like you know a revival of the 8-bit look I think I've noticed in some of the in some of the vr games there's actually games within a game where you're playing an old school video game within you know a photorealistic virtual face you know yep so

So I mean I still do this but I mean and the thing is that I don't necessarily have any of my flatbed plotter drawings as such but there's a there's an offshoot of this that use this thing called the axis drawing which is a small which is a tabletop xypc plotter I would love to have an eight by six but I mean I've done about three four hundred pieces using using do you

Do these drawings as additions or are they all singular

I usually do them I usually do them as singular asterisk you know in other words so I mean I'll do them as I'll do them as uniques actually I do them as uniques right they're variations on a and sort of a theme but they're all individual unique yeah because I'll change the pens and I'll change the methodology a little bit and that sort of thing and they're all unique so if you consider chuck close's you know variations on the phil piece you know I mean he's done that portrait of philip glass how many times but you know it's how does he approach it each time and this is how I this is how I how I do this in other words each each of each of my executions you know of maybe this cat or some you know or this thing it's kind of like how chuck close approaches the approaches phil you know the philip glass portrait in other words he's taking a different methodology or he's taking a different approach to it and this is this is how I do it so this is how I kind of you know say for example I did this you know I did a whole I've done a series you know about my dear wife Negin who's also part of the also part of the at the sabian who's part of the movement and so what happens is that in some ways I almost kind of yeah it's anyway I love my wife anyway we'll just go and just say that so anyway well we'll just are

These works available through a gallery or like you know if the

Collectors

Saw them and they said how

How

Do I get one of those internet cat drawings well and there's a couple people it's like my

My main my main gallery is dam in berlin with wolf leaser we have you know he has you know he's my primary and some of the some of the groups like this random internet cat group is through lee wells at international art consortium out of new york and athens and then I'll just say some of this some of this work here in limited editions is through playform dot io through their through their artist studio but I'm saying that probably the larger work is probably you know is a is a dam project you know so and I'll just say yeah we've got about five six minutes left this particular piece here is based is called personal taxonomies and it's an only a partially released piece it has to do with using generative adversarial networks.

Patrick Lichty

In other words, these things that you send large sets of images to, and it determines patterns and tries to come up with new combinations of attributes of each of these images in a new piece. Thing that's really famous is the portrait of edmund bellamy which sold for I think two hundred forty $142,000 at Sotheby's.

Patrick Lichty

And there's another colleague of mine by the name of Aidan Medern at Oxford who has the IDA drawing robot. And that's very interesting. But in this case, what I've done is that I've done 512 you know non-representational calligraphy pieces because I have a background in japanese calligraphy but I did these pieces that were you know very gestural and I took these two sets of 256 fed them through the fed them through the system and I did these and tried to determine the patterns between these two sets of 256 and then what I did is that then I took those two sets and I put them together and I'm trying to get kind of like the base deep structural patterns of each of these to really kind of almost look at the patterns of my consciousness you know through through creativity

If eliza did you ever think about or see that text based psychotherapist routine yep

Yep yep yep and then the other the other thing and that I'll wind up saying that isn't that isn't here is that I've been also working with GANs to work out, try to pull the patterns out of Persian carpets. And this is kind of a NP team project, which is myself and Negin Ehtesabian. And so we're just starting to generate some Jakar.

Patrick Lichty

From that but they aren't here and then guess what this is you and me colin nice so you know this is this is kind of like you know our sensibilities coming together in the first expressionist collaborations and that and you know I've been working with gans to work out you know going through the personal taxonomies work and then I'm also working with the sketch to painting things in the play play form project and you know this is also something that and Spalter is working with and carl ganas and so the thing is then carl ganas and introduced me to the play form platform which I've been working with for about a year to now and so this is you know you're in my you know piece for the first Techspressionist exhibition and then the thing is that where I've been going a little bit further is that I've been going further with this sketch to painting with this personal taxonomies to work with some things and this is actually a shawl a scarf made for a show in tehran iran you know that's I've been kind of using it for a long time in just like in the art world of show art in the era so and this is something that you know nigging and I have been you know working on but this is this is my piece on that so and

So if people wanted to see more of your work or follow you how would they find you is Instagram the best way Instagram

Is most definitely the best way it's usually a part of the time is I'm I kind of split it about halfway between you know you know the gain in my life and then working and then the work that I'm working on I'm probably going to set up a I'm probably going to set up a strictly Patrick Lichty site but let me go over and share this here let me stop sharing and I'll come back in and this is here we go so that's Negin and I and this is say for example this is actually one of my latest pieces I basically took as many images of dogs playing poker together and making paintings from that as kind of a little fun satirical thing but you know in other words sort of highlighting the kind of highlighting the potential and the potential and the absurdity of artificial intelligence so these are other pieces from the base calligraphy pieces from personal taxonomy and you're pat lichty at on Instagram yep and this is another 3d piece that we haven't talked about something I went out through the emirates doing 3d and I'm going to show you a little bit of a picture of the base calligraphy pieces from personal taxonomy and you're pat lichty at on Instagram and they yeah I

Noticed some stills from that one we first started working together they look pretty interesting and

These are some style transfers of these are some oil paintings I did from AI style transfers from photographs of my old old institution in abu dhabi inside university and so

You want to just quickly let us know you know where you're posted now like what your current like what your current what you're doing within

Your teaching and stuff like that yeah right at that right the moment I'm teaching at in the mass communication department at winona state university in winona minnesota which is on the beautiful mississippi river in the middle of the cold and you know this is where you know number one I wanted to get back into the united states and Negin and I are you know just kind of setting up our studio here and you were in abu dhabi for about five years or so I would yeah I was in the uae at various places for about five years and you know worked throughout central asia and eurasia and the middle east and that sort of thing, but I was based in the UAE. Gotcha. Gotcha.

All right. Well, I guess, I know you mentioned you had to take off around four. So, is there anything else you wanted to, to bring up?

I think we're good for the moment. I think actually, I'm really glad that we had a talk to kind of, had this time to talk a little bit about kind of like the, kind of like the, the, you know, kind of like the thought. Know, that I've been having behind, you know, this whole Techspressionism thing and, you know, and then share some of the work. And, you know, because I, I think, I think to me, I think that there's a very deep impulse, you know, that comes from a lot of deep thought for me over a long period of time that, you know, is, is a, is a longer project, but, you know, to me, it, it fits under this, this notion of, of, of Techspressionism. And I, you know, I'm, I'm glad that, I'm glad that we're doing this project, you know, and I'm glad that actually the thing is, is that it's, it's given me the chance to do this work, you know, that, that comes out of that art historical tradition.

Patrick Lichty

And Yeah. And comes, and through this, like this algorithm and, and that sort of thing, and, and then coming, coming in and just kind of merging these things and then really kind of really having this reflective moment to consider where we are in, you know, in an art historical context in the present, in the contemporary moment to reflect, reflect on what is, what, what is the, what is the subjective space of technology? And with me, it's primarily the digital. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I mean, I was, I was speaking with Helen Harrison this morning, you know, about a, another project that she and I are working on together for the, the Pollock-Krasner House. And she, you know, and we were talking about curatorial direction, you know, and you and I are going to be curating the upcoming Techspressionism 2021 show together in Kunstmatrix. And she, you know, she sort of impressed on me that this isn't all encompassing any work dealing with technology, you know, to her anyway, like the differentiator is it's rooted in the philosophical basis of expressionism. Yes. You know, and it's gotta be work that is about personal expression. That is, that's what defines expressionist work. As expressionist work versus technology based work or new media art or digital art or anything else that's medium specific.

Colin Goldberg

Yeah. It's content specific.

And in many ways we're doing sort of an intellectual reprise, but the thing is, is that we're framing it in the context of the moment, which I think is the important part.

Yep. Sure. It's like, it's like expressionism is a continuum, you know, and then this is just a snapshot of like what expressionism. Yeah. Is, is manifesting itself as right now, you know, when everyone is in front of a computer wearing computers pretty soon, we'll have computers implanted in them. Yeah. You know, if Elon Musk has his way with, with a neural link or whatever it is. Yeah.

What's the, you know, in other words, what's, what's, you know, what's, what's the space of human subjectivity within, within the technological frame that there we are. Hi, how are you?

I think that's the thesis for the. Paper.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's really it now, isn't it? So, and I mean, and you know what, I mean, you know, and, and I think that there are people who say, yeah, no, but, but I think, I think to me is the, is the fact that, you know, we're just really reflecting on, on the subjective human experience in, you know, in the, in, in the, in the contemporary moment in which technology is so endemic. And so guess what? How each of us within the group chooses to address this.

Right. That's something I brought up with, with Helen is that, you know, by looking at an image, like when, when, you know, going through the feed and trying to curate going through the image, there's real, there's really no way to know the intentionality of the, the artist that is like, there's no way to say like, hey, this crazy pixelated grid is actually about. Yeah. Right. Or there's some emotional thing that was going on in the person's life at the time, the artist might know that, you know what I mean? Yeah. But there's very little way to know that unless there's, you know, this component of like artists giving their presentations and everything else like that. So that's what makes it sort of difficult and I think that the people saying yes and the people saying no, like that discourse is actually what makes this interesting.

You know?

And to me is that. You know, really what happens is that. How do we, you know, how do we try to build this relationship with people who are even different than us? How do we approach this objective through the lens of technology? And how does each of us decide to approach this in this given way? And I mean, okay, you know, that's fine.

Patrick Lichty

And, you know, we're grandchildren of a tradition. And, you know, what happens is that, you know, it's a conversation. And to be perfectly honest, I hope it captures the imagination of some people.

I agree. All right. Well, thank you, Patrick. You know, it's been a great conversation.

Yeah. Thanks so much, Colin. I appreciate it. Thank you.