Interview 4 // Joseph Nechvatal

Here I am with Joseph Nechvatal. This is Colin Goldberg, webcasting from the Everbeta Content Network. I'm here with Joseph Nechvatal, technology artist and writer. He's going to speak to us a little bit about Viractuality. Right now, we're online checking out some of his stuff and we're about to head over to his studio.

Colin Goldberg

You want to head over there?

Sure. Okay.

And Joseph is going to take over the camera work from here as well. So, you get to be the videographer and the subject. The subject and

The object.

This is Viractuality and not himself.

Let's get out of here. Okay. Do you want to... Turn your computer off or just leave it? I just leave it running all the time. Because you're on a line.

Yeah, it's better with the computer. Power's a little bit small. So, can you explain Viractuality a little bit to us?

Absolutely. To the viewer or to whoever's watching this. Viractuality is sort of a high-level hybrid idea which comes from actuality and virtuality. It's an idea that was developed in my... Turn your knob a little bit further. There you go. It was an idea that was developed in my research into virtual reality which I was doing for my PhD recently.

Joseph Nechvatal

Up in Wales with Roy Ascott at CAIA. And it seemed to be a very rich and fruitful area where artists particularly, but it applies more generally to society. You know what I mean? Maintain eye contact with yourself. It's impossible. It's not easy, baby.

I know, I know. It's fun though.

Once you get it out of your head, you can just walk around. I think I've got to put it in my left hand. Just look right through the window.

Yeah, I know what I have to do. There you go. Yeah, yeah. Get it comfortable for yourself.

Should I start over again? Yeah, it's cool. It's worth the progress. And... So it's this area between physicality, the body, the work of art as a physical entity and virtuality, digitality. And I think it's this third space which is very interesting. Perhaps one might say indicative of the third wave of computing, ubiquitous computing. Where our bodies will be interacting with virtuality on a regular basis. And I think we just need a new way to think about this, a new language. And so I came up with virtuality, which was pretty much inspired by alchemy, where alchemists take two, three terms and make, and concepts and procedures, and create new processes out of the splicing hybrid. And so that's a little bit of the inspiration for where we're actually getting from. But it really also has to do with architecture and its use of computers.

Joseph Nechvatal

It has to do with performance art and its use of computers. It has to do with sculpture, painting, obviously, which is what I'm involved in, in the history of computers. And I think it's a very interesting new space that we can explore.

Like how would, for instance, you use your new kind of... Concept in a sense, say to a lay person. We live in the period of virtuality.

I see, yeah. Well, I can relate to that.

I mean, I meet a lot of people in a virtual space. And then sometimes it ends up becoming real.

That's a prime example. It's really about... Quote, unquote.

It's really about how the flesh interacts with the virtual, the electronic, the ephemeral. My reality is that there is no virtual reality, except, you know, in the minds of theoreticians. The use of the computer is part of my reality. When I meet people online, it is reality. Just as if I meet them via telephone or face-to-face. You make no distinction.

Colin Goldberg

Well, I make a distinction, but I try not to, you know, create a fictional reality out of my interactions with cyberspace. It's more like an extension of reality.

I think it's a more sophisticated idea than, oh, wow, we're discovering this new field of virtuality, you know, and this is something so new. I think now we're getting really used to that. And it's a little more sophisticated reading of our interaction with computers and digital information.

Definitely, definitely. I mean, how do you feel that computers have changed your life the most as far as, you know, overall life change?

Creative freedom. An enormous amount of freedom. Freedom of mobility with a kind of techno-nomadic lifestyle, which I leave living in Europe half the time and New York half the other time. Also, the amount of creative work I've been able to produce with the aid of computers in the last ten years or whatever, which involves music, creative writing, imagery, animation.

Joseph Nechvatal

So I just think it's such an enormously creative tool. For somebody who has kind of a multimedia or expanded arts outlook towards the arts and isn't hung up on any kind of formal purity. Oh, yeah! I can't believe I am or you are. So it's a kind of a tool,

I guess, because... New Amsterdam reality. I mean...

Okay, we're rolling again. Technical glitch. All part of the action. Loose battery. Yeah. Nothing serious. So we're walking on the Lower East Side. We're calling it I Live, by the way. An area that I've seen change a great deal from the funky now to the far out. Here we are

At Rivington Street.

Yeah, Rivington. Home of the Evergreen Arts Gallery.

That's right. Just behind us is the gallery. Coming up to the corner of Ludlow and Rivington where the cover of Paul Boutique's Where the Beastie Boys Was Photographed.

How nice.

Yeah, right here. Now it's a coffee shop. Yeah. Give a shot of that shit. I will. Might as well. Hey, am I allowed to say that on the Internet? Well, one thing I should probably say about the Verrach Valley is the text that I... Proposed here for Ever Beta is kind of a research text of which this idea of virtuality came out of and it's certainly, I hope, could be a useful tool for students or anybody interested in catching up on what virtuality is and where it came from and how it applies to the arts and...

Is the text that you're putting up for the net a collaborative work or is it something that you wrote...

No, this is something I did to earn my PhD as a matter of fact. So it wasn't a collaboration. It was a three-year work that I did in Paris, in England over the last few years. Now we're on Ludlow.

Is there anywhere else in the world that you'd like to consider living besides, you know, where you are now? Amsterdam.

And I'd also like to try South America. Brazil, I hear, can be amazing. Yeah. I'm interested in Brazil. Africa also, Northern Africa. I particularly like Morocco and been there a couple of times. Here's my joint.

Nice.

I guess the doorman's got a day off.

Doorman's sleeping.

Third floor walk up.

Keep in mind, although this is on the text channel, it's just because the relevancy here is your writing. Yeah. I want the audience to know that I'm going to mention as an artist first. Yeah. So it goes to show that everyone has a multi-faceted quality.

Multimedia generation requires multi-creativity. So here we are. Hi. Hi.

Hi. Just came back.

Oh, look, my dog and my wife are here, Mary-Claude. Yeah. Say hello to the people, Mary-Claude. Hello. This is Ryder. He knows and loves color. Say hello to Ryder. We're doing our interview for the net.

Ah, okay.

Yeah. So we're now going to go on the computer.

Okay. But you want me to go?

No.

I'm going to the

Computer. I don't have to go. I'm just giving the tour. I'm going to the...

Ryder, be quiet. I'm going to the shoe maker. I got some vibes.

Mm-hmm.

It's nice, huh?

Mm-hmm.

Are you doing your place?

Well, I'm just giving the people a little tour. Okay. Cool. Okay. Okay.

So, you want to end on your site? Move back into the virtual world?

Good idea. No doubt.

Exit from whence we came.

Actually, I'm not on the line, but I'll just... I know what I'll do. I'll give you a little tour. I'll give you a little show. A little slideshow. All right. Now it's 436 PM. This is how you... Brian Lins. I'm throwing in some Brian Glick on the student list. And as I said, we're going to continue with John Clay. Yeah. Just a little show of some of the work... I've been doing... The visual work I've been doing that... Three.

Joseph Nechvatal

Yeah. Three. So, this is a performance by Garth, Zach, and Juan. I mean, they blend for me. And essentially, the speech rundown is that Variation 3 requests any action by any person. Garth and I, when I am able, make independent realization. I am able to use his percussion and the left-hand half of the organ manual in his version. Okay.

So, this is John as Kjell.

Connection symbol to what is written and what is inked over. The data comes from a German Gram from LP entitled Ger, Sacker, Orden. And over here is now John Cage's Variations.

Okay.

Smile. Say hi to Paris. Look at the dog, too.

Right, y'all, come here. Come, we'll take a picture. Picture of you.