Salon 105 // Every Woman Biennial

Welcome! I'm Renata Janiszewska, and I'm coming to you from Lion's Head, Ontario, Canada. For those of you just meeting us, Expressionism can be thought of as Expressionism for the digital age. We are a community of over 350 artists, In 45 different countries. Who use everything from mobile apps to coding. To translate our inner experiences into visual art. It's an approach. Not a style. We don't care what software you use, we care about the feeling behind it.

Renata Janiszewska

We were started by a group of five, four of them artists. One of them, Helen Harrison, art historian and former director of the Pollock-Krasner House. These founders met in 2021. And this is our 105th psalm. All of them are recorded and available to view on our website, which is very comprehensive. I encourage you to take a look at it. It's Techspressionism.com. And they're also on our YouTube channel. Hashtag Techspressionism has been used over 85,000 times, so please think about using it.

Renata Janiszewska

Our Instagram account is partly based on works bearing that hashtag. And we would also love it for you to join our Artist Index. To do so, just follow the at Techspressionism Instagram account, and DM me for the details. We are a very inclusive and welcoming community. The website address, once again, is Techspressionism.com. And the Instagram is at Techspressionism. We're also on TikTok. Now, I'm going to hand things over to Erin Ko, who is my co-moderator, coming from the Pen and Brush Gallery in New York City.

Okay, I'm gonna play a short overview, video.

Erin Ko

So, this was a little preview of some of our Techspressionist artists who are showing. In this edition of the Every Woman Biennial. And we have their URLs. Please follow these groups.

Erin Ko

Thank you everyone for coming. I wanted to talk a little bit about the Every Woman Biennial. Which was formed in 2014, when the founders noticed that there was not one woman in the Whitney Biennial. So their philosophy is near and dear to my heart in terms of activism, which is when you see something you don't like in the world, you go and you build the better thing. And then you get everyone to come to your better thing. So, I've participated in the past.

Erin Ko

As an artist, and this year I was invited to come on board as the new media curator. It's been an honor, and it's been a really awesome experience trying to fold in new media into what has been a very, honestly, edgy but traditionally mediumed art, movement. And I just wanted to speak for a moment, near and dear to my heart, is the idea of why new media is important. And that is, it's kind of my mantra, artists need to have a seat at the table. And I think that the people who work with technology are… end up getting a very close-up view of what's being developed, what's being used. They become very media literate. So, and it's very interesting to see how artists take these tools that are often used for advertising, for manipulation, for other goals.

Erin Ko

And respond to the world. So today we're gonna talk to four of our… wonderful participants. 3 of them are actually new to Techspressionism, so I'm very happy to introduce their work to this group of international artists. And, Without further ado, before we move on, I would like to invite Parker Daly Garcia, who is the art director for Pen and Brush, so she can just tell you a little bit about the gallery, and you can hear about how mission-aligned these projects really are.

Erin Ko

So, yes. He's… take it away, yeah.

Erin Ko

Is it helpful to stand here, or… You can stand wherever you like. You tell me. Perfect. Thank you. Are you familiar with Potterbrush? Well, I know maybe a lot of the people online might not be. So we are obviously based in New York City. Pen and Brush is 132 years old. We are a non-profit. We've only ever shown work by women since 1894, which is a pretty substantial accomplishment, and,.

Erin Ko

We're thinking about, I know you mentioned, Techspressionism was founded, at least in part, by an art historian, so… in art history in 1894, you know, in Paris, there was, like, the Salon de Refuse, where the expressionists were mounting their own salon shows, right? And here in New York. Women were not allowed into many of the art schools to study art, to publish their writing, they often had to do so under a pseudonym if they did publish at all. They weren't allowed to study the nude figure, they certainly weren't allowed to study in the way that men were, they could not own property, they could not organize, it was illegal, and… they also couldn't have bank accounts, right? That was… that's new in, like, the 1970s without the husband, right? So, it's pretty spectacular that a group of women met and decided to form, at the time it was called an incorporated, then in the… when, nonprofits became a government thing in the 1920s, it became a nonprofit, but… that they were doing that, and having this kind of… they actually ended up buying a brownstone in the early 1900s as well, burnt the mortgage with their husbands in the photo, so they had supportive husbands, right? But they did that in the early 1900s.

Erin Ko

And… Penbrush was really this kind of place where women could live like la vieboe. They could talk about criticism, they could talk about their work, they could talk about the pressing issues of the world, they could talk about and display their art. So, the Every Woman Biennial was a very natural partnership for an organization like Pen and Brush, which today mounts museum-quality shows, and our whole entire thing, right? Is establishing price points for women artists.

Erin Ko

Which I think, in lieu of tech, is a really interesting place to be right now. Establishing price points, how does that live, how are they purchased, what does that look like, are there certificates of authenticity? Does it come, you know, how do we package? That, right? So that's a really interesting thing that I think also deeply affects women artists disproportionately. I don't know if you all agree. So, pen and brush mouse museum quality shows, our goal is to establish price points, get women's voices into museums, insert them into the canon.

Erin Ko

And yeah, we now obviously include gender-expensive artists in that as well. So, I am delighted to see you all again, to meet everyone online, and I hope you'll… I hope we'll work together at some point. Thank you. Yes. Anything from… Okay. I would love to start with our first guest, Nina Sobell. She's amazing, and she's… got work that she's going to let you all experience on our closing April 11th, but let me start off with an introduction, and then I'll let her take it away.

Erin Ko

Right? Nina Sobell began exploring interactivity with throwable foam sculptures in 1967, and the many facets of collaboration in 1969. In 1972, she first conceived of making non-verbal communication and the synchronicity of two people's brainwaves visible. An inquiry that led her to Brainwave drawings. So turkey. I love it so much. The series, and more recently, Gamma Time. Her work continues to explore time, space, and consciousness as a spiritual continuum, linking inner experience, human interconnectedness, and the larger cosmos. Please give it up for Nina Sobell.

Erin Ko

So… Nina, would you like to stand here, or would you like to… you want me to play the…. Okay. Okay, you sit. I'm just saying that?

Erin Ko

You can play automatically, though, I'll say next, right? Yeah, you can tell me next, next. You can definitely tell me… I know. Well, it's all a little casual. I think when you work with tech, it's like, to make something really slick is a different… almost a different, project. Anyway… Okay. Can you all see that at home? Can the Zoom audience see this?

Yep.

Okay, great. Okay, I first made it as… These terrible sculptures and I said, oh my goodness, how fun that is to be able to make something on such a grand scale.

Erin Ko

It started on this… I started on this journey where my goal in developing interactive environments whether sculptural or high-tech. Is to provide a stage and a prize. To enable people to rediscover in capacity.

Erin Ko

It's through play.

Erin Ko

Out of the world. In 1972. Cornell. Collaborated with a friend of his.

Erin Ko

We brought it, he had an Alphaway machine, and I said, wow, wouldn't it be great if we could both see both of our I'll agree. It comes and be emitted at the same time. And he said, why don't we use my stethoscope, one person on the X-act 1% on the y-axis. And when you do that, it makes a circle configuration, like, in the top, in the center. When both people are emitting the same frame ranges at exactly the same time, it makes a circle. And I said, well, why don't we have it people's faces, why don't we make it a mental and physical portrait of them? And that's what we did.

Erin Ko

And, oh, okay. Oh, you paused. Okay, brainwave joints. What are brainwave joints? Rainwave drawings are the visualization A skin interactive, non-verbal communication. It draws upon the social nature Of the brain's electrochemistry. As it reveals it deeper, Understanding into our internal guidance. Maybe miserable.

Erin Ko

And then, and then, in seeking more accurate, transitions, between, us. And the output, rainwing output began, an, a search for… and more advanced technology, which I thought had been neuro, neuro… Psychology, laboratories, COVID Veterans, hospital. With Dr. Barry's German, and he said, well, if you come back. If you give me quantitative information. And I said, okay, and so they, they sent the output of both people's brainwaves into the PDP-10 computer, and… it proved that one person was, in fact, influencing the other person non-verbally.

Erin Ko

And after that, he said, well, you can come back. And then, in time, I did an installation at the Houston Arts Museum in Houston, where I set up a same room environment, and,. Activated, and I said, T to… marrying. And he later became I'm a psychologist of….

Erin Ko

Using biofeedback. You keep following my path. Took me up on it, I guess. And, and then the LC would be looking for further, more accessible equipment, I… I asked a couple of friends, and Mike Trich again, said, well, there's a new computer store opening in Santa Monica. I was living in Venice at the time. And he said, why don't you check it out? I went in and I met Dick Eiser, who started it from Ceramic ink tank. And, it hired me to work there.

Erin Ko

And so I opened the first consumer access computer store in the world, and we used a homemade digital, analog-to-digital converter. One minute left. Well, we couldn't… I'll take you. Just, just flash the slides. I'll just name the name. I'll just name, I'm just naming. Yeah, and then these are the graphics that we made with the Apple II, and, and keep going, and then 1992 at the Browns River Arts and… Oh, okay.

Erin Ko

And, I invite passers-by to come in and participate, and this is… the next one is,. At the Center for Advanced Technology, where they had a camera, and people could click on the right-hand side of the armature and the left-hand side of the armature, and they'd put on clay according to where they clicked, and it was the first telerobotic sculpture ever made on the internet. And, then I said, well, why don't we take that capper into the streets? We did, and it was a shoulder-driven cart, So I'm… more people in attendance.

Erin Ko

Passers-by, again, could, direct the camera so that they could see what was going on inside, because sometimes passersby are quite disenfranchised from coming into a gallery. They need a little encouragement, so we gave them encouragement. And, then I said, well, there's no, there's no internet for, to, to pass EEG back and forth, although we got it back for it. It… but, let's do seances in Banff. We were invited to go to Banff, and we did four, seances.

Erin Ko

And, Where people, interconnected over the internet. There, if you, if you… Click on the sound. And then click on the video, it'll show you how it's still active on our site. The frames at the upper left are the one person in New York and one person in Banff. Communicating together. And for the audience, we had written limitations, set up, He could respond. To the meditations as they conversed. In the, together. And then, and now, gamma time. GammaTime is called GammaTime, this is very important, because Mike Trivichigan, Mike Trivich from 1972, sent me an article saying how 40Hz camel thigh and 40Hz vinyl piece influences… it stimulates your cerebrospinal fluid that goes to your brain, that washes it up no more than child class.

Erin Ko

Alzheimer's, and dementia, and improved creativity and cognition. And, and, and so, I said, oh, is there anything out there that lets one know when one is experiencing a gamma. And he said, no. And they said, okay, let's go. And that was, like, in early 24. And we haven't stopped since. And, and now, we're working on Galentine and Arbor's expert, the XR space, participants move sculpture with their brainwaves, and they are cleared according to the brainwave frequency. It's a work of progress, and the sounds change accordingly. So, if you heard the sound some sound going on in, in the previous slide.

Erin Ko

That you'll all hear on… on Saturday night. Each of the sound… each sound is color is, aligned with… and brainwaves… and, as well as the colors on the screen. In this case, the colors, the sculptures move in sync and in speed with your brain waves. Yeah, and then I, showed the sculptures in real life to,. Veronica Reschetnikov, and she said, I can 3D print those. And I said, you can. Well, if you 3D print those, people can hold them while they're looking at themselves on the screen. They'll connect.

Erin Ko

Wait, can you open his… And these are the 3D sculptures that she made. And, and we'll be giving, and we'll be eating them out. For people to hold. The other two are near. I promise to give them back to you. The only ones I got. So, and then, as you saw, I immediately started… I had been drawing. And I immediately started bringing them into my drawings and, and experimenting with them. And this is, on the right, we're going to be having the verses, different verses, which bring you into, another world, an interactive world.

Erin Ko

Full, full of, full of joy. And, the last slide, is me experimenting again with these creatures.

Erin Ko

Yeah, that's a….

Erin Ko

Oh, I'm collaborating with two very wonderful people, Nazar Goth.

Erin Ko

And He's the engineer at Stoyer Express.

Correct.

And… Rapid graphics and graphics. Oh, oh, yeah, that went up.

Erin Ko

Thank you so much, Nia.

Erin Ko

That was probably a lot, because, like, you do so many things, but we're gonna be able to experience it,.

Erin Ko

It's definitely worth checking out, Thank you, Erin. Alright, our next speaker is… A little bit about her.

Erin Ko

Itang founder, performer, builder, whose work lives at the intersection of code and feeling. She's the creator of Vibes, an AI-powered vision system that makes technology responsive. For online people. Alright, I'm starting at ETA, founder, performer, builder, whose work lives at the intersection of code and failing. She's the creator of Vibes, an AI-powered visual system that makes technology respond to music in real time. Performance as cathartic, A Scybean artist and DJ whose sets blur the line between software and ritual. An MIT Reality Hack Wellness Prize winner, with work currently shown at Every Woman by Annie Ting was exactly the type of art… the kind of artist-engineer this community was made for. I love it. Please welcome Yi Ting!

Erin Ko

Hello, everyone. My name is E.T.

Erin Ko

How's everyone doing today? Awesome. Nice! I love this. And experience. It's very, very, very precious. Tell us about your piece, which is downstairs. Okay, downstairs, Everything, go down the editor and turn left, you will see a glowing globe. As a TV screen that shows like, encouragement for you to cast It's called Five Outer. It's an interactive installation that It invites you to cast a spell. And also encourage a dialogue with feminist scholars who have written issues about female empowerment.

Erin Ko

Feminism. And this is what it looks like. Don't miss it. So… Oh, gosh. Oh, yeah, I didn't talk about… wait, you only talk about myself, so, I just feel I have the obsession to… make things, and I realized that I can't really stop making things. It doesn't matter what mediums I'm on, I could be drawing strangers on commutes on the subway, and I would just keep going. People would be looking at me and be like, and be like, thanks. And then, I keep, like, the deeper mediums that they experimented with are music, I push… with music and performance under the name Cathartic Green.

Erin Ko

And then I also make a bunch of creative coding sketches using p5.js when I was first came to New York. And now I've been expanding it to more accepted reality, and then lately I've been experimenting with a lot of AI, which is why I founded my company. It's an AI visuals for Life Events. Love good, immersive experiences, and I think everyone should experience that without paying Expensive tickets, or without, like. Heavy, high budgets. So, for this project by author.

Erin Ko

The… the goal is to make sure the intentionality shows up in every action that you do, and it's also a ritual once you commit to it. And I'm heavily influenced by Julia Carpent who wrote The Artist's Way, and I've been writing three pages every day as my morning ritual, and besides that, I constantly manifest things and work with constantly faces to make sure that things? Same? And I want to bring the vibe out on, too, and we want to encourage the interaction, and then allow them to… get inspired, maybe something that you are manifesting.

Erin Ko

Is something that you have in your mind, maybe some… maybe sometimes the quote from the feminist scholars would spike additional later of interpretations of your daily and cheap. And if you keep going, there are, there are 9 quotes here, and you can… it's basically, video loop of each 9 video. And those are quotes from Femini scholars. You don't know what you're gonna get, so better try it out and see if you can take online. And I realized the reason that I love making things is because I grew up in an environment where my Grandma, from my dad's side, constantly makes things. She makes pyjama for all of us, makes shoes, crochets, and knits. It's so wonderful. Now, every year when I visit home, I will just bring back some new addition that she created.

Erin Ko

And then for my… Grandpa from my dad's side, he plays Orku, so I learned Orku from him, too, and my dad keeps on documenting stuff, which is why I'm currently documenting with my phone. It's just, like, so wonderful, and I want to bring the joy of making things into the world, which is why a lot of my creations are very fruitful, and… interactive. And The Vice Life is my company, you can look into got livestock app? And you can download today and create an immersive experience at home. It basically takes music input, it could be computer sounds, or any sound that you connect with the sound system in a venue, and you will be able to just create a device for either your parties, or if you're a performer.

Erin Ko

You can create that, and whenever you're singing, it's music reactive. To the visuals, and you get to customize your environments by using the power of AI. And I have some updates. I love creating an epic community, like, creating events is also an art, just, like, how Aaron is curating everything like this. The whole… it's a lot of work, and I really enjoyed the whole experience, the journey of taking you through, like, each art piece. So I have two events coming up. One is High Society Festival, April 18th. It's a day festival with a bunch of musicians, and the food and the marketplace.

Erin Ko

And it's… We're only gonna hit 1,000 people there, so it's gonna… The fun and the future of OIC design is a conference that I'm hosting where we invite industry design folks to join us and talk about the intersection of AI design and culture. And that's it.

Erin Ko

Dang. So, our next speaker… I love… you know, we're just going to order about 7 minutes. You chose this destiny? Tasneem Bashir is a game designer, educator, and visual artist that is dedicated to creating upbeat, interactive experiences. Gameplay and representative stories. She explores the intersections of play, education, and exuberance through a femme, South Asian, and Muslim lens. She is currently a professor of game design at CCNY, and actively develops games as part of her studio, Pineapple Staircase. Please welcome.

Erin Ko

Yeah. So, absolutely.

Erin Ko

Alright, my name is Tasmine. I am presenting to you today a video game that I am….

Erin Ko

I'm sorry. Consume audio. At all.

We're not seeing the screen share at home.

Oh, got it, thank you. Let's do that. Can everyone at home see the slides? Meal here.

Yes, we're good.

Okay, fantastic. I have to deal with this when I teach Zoom classes for my students.

Erin Ko

Alright, so yes. Yeah, my name is Teddy Beshear, and I'm presenting to you today a video game called Fashion Usa's Battle of the Babes. And I'll talk a little bit more about the game, but before then, just to introduce who I am. Who made this game, so, me and my collaborator, Cameron Gonzalez, who's in the audience, we're in the structure, we are finding case, we've been working together since grad school at the NYU Game Center, and… essentially, we always try to create games that lean into, like, absurdity, Weird, silliness.

Erin Ko

As well as, you know, talking about, our own personal stories and identities, and, like, trying to pull along your part. So, all of our games, while they look really silly and… Absurd. We're always coming in at the angle of our own personal, personal background. So, the game. The game is Fashionistas, Battle of the Babes. It is kind of what it sounds like. It is a, it is a dress-up game where you pick an outfit, and your outfit determines your abilities.

Erin Ko

And then you battle it out with another person. So it is a turn-based multiplayer dress-up battle. This is the technical game towards work. So, we really wanted to design this experience that was quick to learn, because it's online, we were very inspired by a lot of the Flash games of the 2000s, that you just, you go on a website, you click on a game, and you immediately know how to play it, it's really easy to pick up. So we wanted something that was quick to learn.

Erin Ko

Energetic, but also really, really camp. I'm someone who like, I love fashion, I love self-expression, so I wanted to just inject that into this game. So we took a lot of inspiration from drag. Bending gender norms, and, just all sorts of fashion styles. So, the way we approached this project was actually through, this boot camp that we did last summer. So we had… we actually had given constraints, and a lot of… Game development, if you ever go into games, is built on constraints.

Erin Ko

So we were given these kind of hard constraints. We had 10 weeks to make this game, we had to use a very specific engine. An engine is just a, environment where you build the game. You do your scripting, you can bring up your scene. So this new engine was called Turbo. And it also used this, Scripting language that we had never used before called Rust. Like, we are C-sharp Unity people to the bone, so this was very new to us. And it also had the online which is also the new experience parts.

Erin Ko

Were the given constraints. The kind of pillars that we gave ourselves, we wanted to make this turn-based, we wanted to, obviously, lean into the silliness. As is our… motto. As and also, we wanted to, while make, like, a really fun dress-up game, subvert, subvert, like, the classic gender bias that you see in a lot of and I'll talk about that. But these were our constraints, and what we ended up with I was, like, a great mood board of a lot of inspiration. So one of the main inspirations actually, the Majimpsies, if anyone has played Mother 3, or any of, like, the Mother series that are all the big Earthbound games, the Majimpsies were, like, this, this cast of… Mystical, androgynous guardians.

Erin Ko

And I… I really loved the character design for all of them, and I was like, they're so fun, they're very obviously inspired by drag. And I was like, I want more of that. We want to see more of that. If this were a dress-up meeting about. So we took a lot of inspiration from that. Took a lot of inspiration from Drown, of course. And then also took a lot of inspiration from through 2000s Game Boy. A lot of games back then, if you ever played Game Boy Advance, or the Game Boy more, like, turn-based, where you Pokémon is the classic turn-based game where you have your character and you're fighting a pick, your, your attacks one at a time, It's a very simple, understandable, gameplay, so… those are the inspirations that we were taking from.

Erin Ko

And this is a little bit of the, the back, like, the back end. Like, behind the curtain, all the stuff that we do, to build a game. So, yes, there's art, there's programming, there's a lot of just, like, design and, Flow charts, and doing UX, and… I wanted to share this because, like, I think the whole process of game development it is a very playful process, and just kind of showing where we started with this really silly name. This is just, like, a big thing before that Karen and I when we were designing, like, the outfits, we were just doodling some really crazy stuff that were.

Erin Ko

What if this was a piece of clothing? What if meatballs were your shoes? What if a fish was your hat? Eventually, all of those things ended up in the game, and that's kind of, like, the energy that we wanted to put into the game, just like. You can literally wear whatever. It doesn't matter, just wear it, and it's fun. As long as it's, like, fun and enjoyable, you can do whatever, which is basically… like, the whole through-line about genuine stuff.

Erin Ko

So, eventually, like, why did we even create Fashionistas? Well, first of all, I think we need more dress-up games in general. A lot of the dress-up games that, I played as a young kid growing up were, like, flash games, like Barbie games, Brats. And they were all really fun, and they were all, like, very, Foundational to my art style and the way I think about games. But they are very targeted to a very specific young girls, pink, sparkles. And it's just very, it's very, you know, gender.

Erin Ko

That, I wanted to kind of… Blur that line. So, another reason why we created the fashionistas was to subvert the genre. And there's a whole conversation to be had about, what is a game for women, and why do games for women have the title, versus… games… There's not really a term for games for men, because it's just assumed all games are for men. So we wanted to kind of learn that line where this game is a traditional progressive game, which you would imagine… which you would traditionally assume meant I don't want me?

Erin Ko

But it's also a battle. Like, traditionally meant for everyone else. So just, like, kind of… bringing everything together. We wanted to subvert those lines and the genre and just, at the end of the day, we want to make a really feel-good game. That, like, you can do whatever you want. Play, and you just feel good, have fun, it's quick at times. And before I go I know I'm a little off, but I just wanted to show 20 seconds of the gameplay. I'll just play this real quick.

Erin Ko

Yeah, and that is SmashMe says, we will be demoing the game right after the, the panel from beautiful, so… Feel free to join us for that.

Erin Ko

So cool. Okay, we have one last presenter. We're gonna have a little talking Q&A, and… thank you very much for attending. Awesome. So exciting to hear everybody talk about their nonprofit. So… Introduction. Lin is a Malaysian artist and technologist whose work is performance, language, and emerging technologies. Through installations, participatory systems, and embodied research, she explores how cultural memory. Technology, and collective experience shape meaning. Her practice examines cosmology for algorithmic life and rituals against optimization, developing forms that foreground care and relation. Lynn is a member of Newark Masses Onyx, and has presented work at SIGRAPH, the New Museum, and the Chungwong Sculpture by Please welcome Adele! I wouldn't say anything else.

Erin Ko

This is downstairs, so if you haven't tried soft upload, please do so.

Erin Ko

Maybe just turn a shot.

Erin Ko

Yeah, just… so, actually, in order to stay in 5-minute time, Play a real opening part. Talk about the piece, but, it was so inspiring to hear, you know. I'll just speak, and I… and I just wanted to touch, maybe, quickly, Oh, I… this technology. It was so… I went to school for interior design. It was during that degree where I but yeah, I started, it was a very interesting, expansive program when I studied in Australia. Species in an entirely different way, and a lot of what we do to do is have. And I started thinking about, like, technology as a material.

Erin Ko

So, I think the way I… are the technology as well as to, you know, Into the work? Thanks.

Erin Ko

No, no.

Erin Ko

Gives me to the cells.

Erin Ko

Good day. Every single day.

Erin Ko

NBC's true.

Erin Ko

They are now.

Erin Ko

Ancient for us.

Erin Ko

Yeah, so, Yeah, I kind of wanted to show range to work, because sometimes I do non-technology, type stuff. But the, last video, performance is actually kind of how folks sort of encountered, the peace downstairs for the first time. We, me and my collaborator, Yang San Han, actually acted, like. Having these conversations about, you know, the meaning of life, and aging, and, you know. And our relationships to technology, extension and AI, on those things, we started, annoying.

Erin Ko

Can you talk more about, like, how we're stuck in this touch. And, so we had created this performance. At first we were thinking about, like, a play, like, computer, you know, AI interface. That the whole… we wanted to bring a whole audience into a… A collective ritual, so… created, yeah, this interface that… each of the audience contributed answers to, and then it generated a ritual in the room that we, that we all kind of did together. Steps along the way, and, and so, yeah, the P sound.

Erin Ko

Yeah, so when you, come into the piece, you're actually kind of,. Kind of like a confessional cruise that invites you in. And then you go in and you answer… a few questions. And then, Which was generated. It's printed out for you, and it's home with you, and, at home, or… So… And then,. Screen, that you can see on the right there is actually, tasting preference. The answers that are… Women by the audience here.

Erin Ko

Couple videos for those who, here can't experience in person, and if you haven't tried it out, yeah, I would love for, you know, your thoughts to… Venture out of collecting.

Erin Ko

Okay, wonderful. So… Now I just have….

Erin Ko

One thing I'm gonna ask… because working with technology is very niche, and we're all artists. Growing up, what was….

Erin Ko

Anytime.

Erin Ko

I went to the Gilbert Hall of Science, in… And to experience remote control. For the first time. I was able to… Remotely control this, this, Forklift, picking up the earth and putting it into another spot. This distance is created, but I can… I can interact with it.

Erin Ko

For me, it's actually, in my kindergarten. The music teacher is playing piano in the first moment that I hear part of the piano seminar, Whoa. Me up from… the kindergarten, I was mimicking what the music teacher was doing, The piano on his shoulder. And keep learning your keyboard immediately right after. So that's why I started playing classical channels.

Erin Ko

Easily. A… piece of work that was impactful for me. It's not specifically, like, a piece, I'd say it's more like a genre. Magical. But you know me, like, they define everything that they do. The way I dress, the games that I make, like Sailor Moon, Winx Club… Pony, like, all of that. Like, I just love things that are just so unabashedly fun and just, like, magical and most cool. And I take all of that into… The art that I create, so I'd say….

Erin Ko

Bye. I was pretty obsessed with, music videos. Music and… You know how they kind of can express. Are you an artist. In the country. Ms. New York. Turn… You know, I think she's incredible, or she, you know, she… Expand the idea of technology, expand the music, the Englisher, you know, early album. A lot of the music videos were, created together with Michelle Laundry. Character, we're… You know, they just kind of, like, bend your mind. Centered. In a crazy way, and this whole, like, you know, bring surrealism into…. Into the work, but yeah, really stuck with me, where you're just not limit, you know, reality is not…. I think that kind of… that's… yeah, it's influence somewhere.

Erin Ko

Okay, cool. I noticed that all of you actually have focus, and in my experience, many creative technologists do, on tap. Nature of reality. In other words, many of you work with materials, even new testing, even though you're doing, like, primarily game development, the nature of clothing it really implies, like, you're thinking about texture. Feel and color and thrive. How do you… Think about, or do you consciously think about, the use of tax materials when you're working with tools that are arguably pretty sterile.

Erin Ko

Fujin. Do you actively… Those digital tools, or do you… second nature to you? I mean, how do you think about this stuff?

Erin Ko

Anything different.

Erin Ko

Comeless, listen, testers. And, like, the… every time I see somebody wearing a cool outfit, I want to be like, cool outfit, can I touch it? And then… 100% of the -oh, thanks. So I definitely incorporate texture in everything I do, and I also love to envision what would my target audience were to experience this piece, how would I want them to feel. It was the… journey of them coming to my work. How do they approach it, and how they feel it, and in order to evoke certain feelings, you can you can do different sections of… Activations are not necessarily into, like, different settings.

Erin Ko

You can also do salad. Jesus. Everything moves… into the experience. That's why… it's so easy to figure out how to make some things, but it's more crucial to figure out what makes the other person feel, Through your teeth. So it's more about the… behind. See the others.

Erin Ko

I can kind of talk about that. I actually don't use any. Physical materials in the work that I do. Yeah, I think it's an interesting thing to think about in… specifically, video games, because obviously in board games, you are dealing There are pieces, and cards. But with video games, like, we have… kind of, problem where, like Everything is… you perceive it through everything, but… I mean, yeah, if you… I mean, you do get, like, that tactile through your controls.

Erin Ko

So you can't get, like, a, like, a specific type of experience or motor experience through The gameplay, so if you have, like, a really fast-paced… Yeah, if you're playing a Twitching, like, a shooter, or… Yeah, like a shooter… that's, like, really fast-paced, like, you're probably sweating, your hands are sweating, and, like, you're clicking with your fingers a lot, versus something that's a lot more slow, or, like, like a walking sim where you're taking time, you're seeing the environment.

Erin Ko

So there is, there's, there's… we have to lean into, like, all, like, kind of all five senses in order to create, like, a full sensory experience with the game. And have a preference for what type of reaction, you're inspiring people, whether you're making them. Or slow down, or do you like doing all, and do you have a preference? I'm actually very much not into, like, really hyper-adrenaline games. If you ask my friends or people who know me, I can't, I don't play combat games, I don't play fighting games, because I kind of get really sweaty. So, like, the games that I make tend to be a little, a little more slower-paced, or the, like.

Erin Ko

Very narrative-driven as well, because you can kind of… you can get texture through things that are not… physical. Like, you can get texture through, obviously, the visuals, like, if you're… making a game that uses, like. Stop Ocean, or play, or, like, collaged in, like, the visuals. You can get, like, visual texture, or you can get texture and the feelings that you, like, that kind of emerge from the gameplay, like, if the story is… has a lot of character development, where you start, where the character's, like, really down, and they uplift throughout the game experience.

Erin Ko

I think there's… there's, like, texture there as well. So you can get, like, this kind of tactile. All sorts of… You, you started off talking about using games to tell people's stories. And actually, I have a lot of what you said. Kind of speaks to the mission statement of this show, as well, of subverting genres and subverting expectations. You know, I think a lot of video game developers, game devs, really love the idea of narrative. It's obviously something I would actually like to ask. How often do you think of narrative? Because your work does seem to be about telling people's stories. I mean, other than being sort of, like.

Erin Ko

We'll say, really powerful thoughts. You seem to be telling alternate, shared stories, and I would love to ask you… how I can consciously think about that. We're about to move onto the subject of surprise, because… Because,. You know, network, emerging things, emerging features, emerging behaviors. So, to start, how much do you think about math?

Erin Ko

Yeah, it's interesting, actually, like, this is kind of where I started making interactive work.

Erin Ko

A group called Code Liberation, and they teach women to code, Two games. And I… I think, yeah, that was.

Erin Ko

Yeah, kind of my, you know, my entry into this space was, also through, like, designing spaces, but how, you know, how can we… how can a space tell the story? We encourage people to be together and share. And, and so, initially, a lot of my, The work was, interactive in the sense that it, you know, into… the pieces. The body is very central.

Erin Ko

You know. You know what I mean? And when I started, I was, like, getting people to do all kinds of, like, ridiculous things in my games, and then after a while, I was like. Oh, actually, you know, maybe I need to… to put myself in the room. How I started performing, because audience, so I would use my body to tell. The story and the piece, and then, you know, then invite the audience in, and, you know. Slowly to kind of but, yeah, I think it's really… To have these different you know, whatever the platform is, to make it, and, also to make space for people. Sure.

Erin Ko

They're experiencing. You know what I mean?

Erin Ko

Bringing and… Beautiful one. World. Maybe he hasn't. Story. And so,. Yeah, so whatever I'm making, often it deals with very particular issues, but I know that there's different Perspectives and… for weeks. Urgency. Make space in my life. Experience. So wasteful. So… So… Dovetailing off of that, I said the word emerging behavior, emerging features, you guys all started nodding. What are some of the surprising Things that have happened. Built something.

Erin Ko

Because I think as artists, we all, no matter what the medium, we have an idea about something. And it changes as you go through the journey of making, so… you're holding the mic, you can. What's one of the most surprising things that happened while you're building the pieces? It's his nighttime. It's so interesting, because every time, for me, Miss? Would not be hung up. Every time I meet… technology. That I build, I will always want to add We'll be sure to connect.

Erin Ko

Fits. A lot more people. Business-wise, it's not… To do so. But just for the sake of creating. So the act that I'm building is, AI… visor application, and… it started off from benefiting musicians who were to create my books. Mmm. Power of AI, you can write code on. Yes, sir. And you can… contribute so much for all the additional features It's so expensive, like…. Branding for your logo, so that you can immersive experience, and it would be good as a.

Erin Ko

Many spaces. That's how you can. Try to pitch yourself, I'm an artist, but also trying to survive Artist, too. Just make everything more intensive. Thank you, A way that is beneficial for the sake of you as your immaterial, but also… For the world. Money for anyways. So it was… was that something that surprised you when you started, before you started buying? I mean, I assume you didn't start out Yeah, I started in your point. Changed. Yes, yes, my practice has changed from developing by searching on Google has stopped over floats. So, clawed.

Erin Ko

But also, I feel I have more control in the sense that I'm now taking more of… thinking on vision, things that I can do. I know the technical skills, and I need to tell Claude how to do it. The discernment of, you are over-complicating such simple requests. Change the bag. And then follow the simple rule. Of coding, so that you don't overcomplicating anything, and you don't cause security issues for the application. So you feel like Claude is streamlining your process?

Erin Ko

But do you ever worry that you might miss some… Amazing. Discovery, because you're going in a certain range. Development phase, like… Like, I think as artists, we all like those beautiful mistakes, right? Yeah. I think it really depends. And so… rise. Projects that I do, they're, playful projects, they're, money-making projects. And for money-making projects, it's all about automation and efficiency, and how you can get your. The whole project is, like, letting those agreed.

Erin Ko

And then in the creativity movement, And letting your child. Roughly. You tell your kid, Go make me an app. The kid is not gonna… follow through, so just… for me, playful profits, you don't set any rules. For me, I don't create any music, and I just don't touch anything. AI-related, because I know if I Hello? It's similar, like, brain rot, how you are, like, tombstrolling, and for AI, it's… I think it's gonna be an AI rock, you'll just let AI tell you what to do, you know? Why should I see the art animating. This is your art today.

Erin Ko

Avoid AI rods, and just have to be… more peculiar of things you want AI to have, and things you want to do yourself. Thus, if it would… standard resourcing. So, use the tool. Yeah, she's. On the subject of surprises, Belle, back to you for a minute. Consult uploaded. You capture, so your piece of people are kind of in a quasi… Intimate space is part of it. They enter… they answer a series of questions. And the answers go into a collective. Results, the collective consciousness. And presumably, for this show, you have a specific set of answers any kind of help.

Erin Ko

Looks like. Have there been, results that surprised you? Regarding how people who flowed through this gallery answered the questions, and if so, what was surprising, and if not, what was that kind of.

Erin Ko

Thanks for asking, and I'll… honestly, I have been able to go through all the answers every time I go down there. You know… Yeah, something we've kind of.

Erin Ko

I… there was… One very surprising thing on the Decision is, assignment. But, never introduced to the room. I always go around the.

Erin Ko

But, joking aside, yeah, on the opening night, actually, there was,.

Erin Ko

She was going through the piece, and, yeah, one of the… one of the really surprising things is how, Whatever she got? My mom was talking to me and, like, showing me some of her answers, but… some of the questions they ask are, your fears, and… Preserve, and, I don't remember exactly what she said, but a lot of it was, like, about. And, you know, worried that she wasn't Machine. To do, to do all these things.

Erin Ko

To do those things, and it just kind of… another idea reminded me of that. These different journeys in her life, and… Here's actually, like… Or are you? These dreams, his vision, they kind of Carry through with us. Where you are on your journey, Like, if you were….

Erin Ko

Yeah, I don't like that. Typically, I guess… Detroit about the piece of this has been, like, getting people to… Share the impact.

Erin Ko

You know, they're very varied, but… necessarily political, environments… outlaw.

Erin Ko

Do you have a glass? For what you're gonna do. He's going to be. Well, like, one idea I had is kind of thinking about it as a chemistry, Maybe after. For sure.

Erin Ko

Answers, or… You know, the data analyst in me is like, what's fine with it. And words, and, you know, how do you I mean, there's layers, and… as people, let's see how that goes, but, I do want the…. It'd be interesting to bring the piece to different audiences.

Erin Ko

Yeah, to see what….

Erin Ko

Hope to do that. Piece, as well. I think it's very different, too, when, your answers are on the screen, on stage, and you're, you know, you're typing Quiet mood.

Erin Ko

I think, like, One thing that's very interesting about is that you… Reliant on collaboration. Interacting. Each other. Added to a collective. Yeah, or playing together in real time. I mean, really, what has needed to be kind of doing a similar thing. They're getting people to play together. And get in sync, and… crossing, endowed you. People kind of, like, Kind of, almost going through a meditative, intimate ritual. I think this is super interesting. I'm wondering if…. This has been a conscious part of your practice? Like, have you always been passionate about connecting people and finding that connected tissue that seems to be almost psycho-spiritual at times.

Erin Ko

Or is it something emergent, or has it been expatic? I would love to hear from you. You know? Because, especially, like, what about… inspiring and helping people make brain drawings together. Like, how did you come to that? You're getting people's brains draw in real time. I think I can draw without it. You can hear me, right? Yeah. Things. Well, it all started with the two of us. Is trying out the… the alpha machine, And, Then it, then it transforms into…. More and more people.

Erin Ko

And, I wanted to make it a global global… and I still do, and it started in 2000… and getting it at was intended. The trademark was BrainChat. And, making a global interactive Brainwave drawing of constellations. Was it through play, though? I mean, like, let me just ask it more bluntly. I'm gonna ask all of you. Why? It's a playful act. It's a joyous end. It puts me into a place of, with humanity.

Erin Ko

What else am I doing here, but being with other people? And, I think of myself as a prompt. I think of my verbal. My verbiage is just like a prompt to collaborate with other people, to absorb my words, for them to engage with my words and my and need to engage with them, And they created with me images or, objects. For our matrices. Evolve the world. I hope.

Erin Ko

Ethan, what's your why? Why? Why do you do what you do?

Erin Ko

Oh, wow. Why'd you make that downstairs? Why'd you make that thing? Oh… Why? That's such a wonderful question. Because I really enjoyed the conversations. And when I hang out with my friends or talk to anybody, I try to ask them questions. Asking them to see their soul. That's the goal, like, my life on Earth is to learn about other people, get to know their souls, the… Also, to be seen, too. And then it's… Basically, we're done. For the art that I make is allowing people to open up themselves, And… Get to see themselves.

Erin Ko

By, like, how they feel when they get certain quotes, when they channel the intention. Touching the globe. Thank you. What kind of meditative zone they are in. And once they know that, because oftentimes I'm right there, and then I'm like, I'm the artist, and then we're just not talking. And windows. Like, inspired moments, we started talking something in depth. And then that helps me to also learn about their own stories. I hate to be in the silo of my own thoughts.

Erin Ko

Pico. And it's good to just get different perspectives from other people, because everybody has a story to tell. And it's just so fascinating to hear Malocado. And for me, collaboration is difficult. I never thought of. Just doing everything alone. I'm very hyper-independent. Which is a curse. Everything myself. Doesn't really… enrich me in whatever way. Is collaboration hard for you? Challenging, we'll say? Collaboration is to not… but I do have standards.

Erin Ko

So, you know, but, like, collaboration in conversations, yes, collaboration in work has high quality, so… I have a very high standards of people that I work with, Yeah. Very nice. I see why. Why don't you do that thing? Why don't you make that game? Yeah, I think about art and, like, library, like, two… buckets. Specifically book games as well, like. Art that I make for myself. And then art that I make for others. And I think, because I work in games, that is, like, an interactive… it's interactive art. It's like we're inviting people to our experience. I, like, every time I start a project, I think about who am I, who am I making this for?

Erin Ko

Because, again, games are, like, this… are essentially like a user experience. So I always have to think about, like, who am I designing this for? If I'm designing it for myself, like, if I'm designing a piece that I want to just relay something really personal about my life. And I'm inviting others to join in on that conversation. The way I'll kind of approach that design will be a little different. If I'm going from the other angle, where I'm designing it for someone else, and I want them to experience this thing in a very specific way. So do you use games as a medium for that first thing? Yes, yeah, yeah.

Erin Ko

It's… it's… changed throughout, like, my career as an artist, like, but I think games is specifically where I… see, like, I see the way to portray, like, the stories I want to tell, Easiest through games, because I think I, I, I like art… Engages people and makes them feel and interact with. So, in the other, like, when you're making games for someone else, like, you're designing, like, a very specific experience for them, I have to think about what are the feelings I want them to feel? How do I… how do I… how do those feelings emerge from the gameplay? What kind of, what kind of mechanics?

Erin Ko

Actions make people feel certain things. Is it just through gameplay? Is it through sound? Is it through, like, what we were talking about earlier, the controls and the texture? The motion, the motor skills. Is it, like, a ritual? Is it, like, the environment? So those are all things that I think come into play when I'm… when you're designing something for… I mean, just experience in general, just the interdisciplinarity aspect of games, and just experience design in general is super collaborative.

Erin Ko

So I think it depends on the type of project I'm working on, at least for myself. Probably, it's just me. But if it's, like, something that's a little bit more… for a specific audience, for everyone, collaboration is just, like, it's, like, almost natural and inherent. So….

Erin Ko

Adele, why? Why? Tell us why. I think you asked two different questions.

Erin Ko

But, the first question you asked was about, like, why make workup? They're not making a second. It's about collaboration. It… they sort of need. Slightly different. But, yeah, I think about, you know, I think people… back to what I, spoke about. Into, and the like is, you know, two games. Play, but I was studying architecture and space design, and then also somehow, like. Got involved in a games lab in Australia, and, you know. Any games, it's really kind of, like, This term, like, local… Local multiplayer, it's, you know, something that people were developing on the game side, Unification Architecture, we were like.

Erin Ko

One space, and I was just like, oh, this is, like, such a wonderful, like, way to do that. And play games in space, you know, make the… Play is such a… topic that we're talking. When I first came to New York, indie game designers. I, you know, joined baby castles, and met folks like, Abe, and Phoenix Perry, and everyone was making, like, weird games with the body, and, you know, and I was, like, encouraging people to touch each other, hit each other, and…. Wonderful.

Erin Ko

Yeah, so I think it just kind of so we came together in that way. Collaboration, I think, I grew up in a very strict household. I wouldn't have to go anywhere. Follow me every time I left the house, flaking. I just, like, couldn't stop, like… communities, and, like, I'm experiencing things, so, like… Oh, it's part of a different weeks. And it just… And I think I love working, so… Working with people, Collaboratively allows me to do.

Erin Ko

Whoa. I think it would be great to take some questions from the audience, either online or here, so….

Erin Ko

And maybe run Madonna? Beautiful. Because you guys can… Raise your hands on Zoom, and if you have a question and you're here, please…. That's fantastic. So, there's a question here. Very good.

Erin Ko

So… We didn't move.

Erin Ko

What are some of the challenges and joys in translating the intangible into something that… be experienced. People. Yeah, more importantly. And I can answer.

Erin Ko

I can answer that. Yeah, I think just the whole conversation about, like, working with… A pretty intangible medium to create tangible is a really interesting concept. And again, I think, The joy that I've been getting from that is just as, like, being intentional. In, the type of experience I want to design, sewing games, like. I had to think about, like, what do we want our players to feel out of, like, a, like, an experience? Like, do you want them to feel rage?

Erin Ko

Do we want them to feel? Do we want them to feel sad. The goal is to just kind of… create a framework in order for A player to feel that way. And I think… Thinking about design and that kind that framework allows… allows me to think about, like, those tangible feelings. And converting them into, kind of, the more intangible, media that we work with, so, like, gameplay. Gameplay's not really… it's not like a… it's not like a physical thing. Thermal mechanics, so, like, how do you interact with another player, how, like, what parts am I playing on, on my turn, and, like, how does that make me feel? Or, like, the sound design.

Erin Ko

And creating, like, diegetic, cells, and… Atmospheric sounds that just make an experience more immersive, so there's actually… there's elements to it that are a bit more, Relative to, like, a tangible experience, like immersion. But all of those, all of those things, I think, go hand-in-hand with the conversation of, translating intangible Translating tangible feelings into intangible. Media. So, like, that's kind of how I approach it, like, I think that's, like, one of the… more joyous things of, like, Like, my work with, like, game development as a whole.

Erin Ko

For me, I will go through my… memories of certain texts. Features that… really sort of feeling that I' The other persons who also feel, And also, experiments with people. Potency. They're making people, I wouldn't ask that. You know, straightforwardly, I'll observe. For user testing. Sometimes the questions you ask may be leading. In terms of the answers, so… Switch. I'm also leaning towards comedy. For Texas, Feelings are transfers interactions to translate into intangible stuff.

Erin Ko

There are also, like, color theories, music theory, what kind of persons of music you want to play to get… to certain zones and certain people. So, those are different kind of it's views, like that. Yeah. Also, like, you can just ask your neighbor Who's? The music designer. Sound design and cool stuff, I normally would just reach out for my network and ask for the expert. And get insights from like, sort of, here's a piece that I'm really working official design.

Erin Ko

The more you ask, your community. Surprisingly, they will get back to you, and if they don't know, they will refer you to more. So that's how you can also grow your network. Reliable collaborators. That would help with some projects. Yeah, reliable. Reliable. Do we have a question from… or do you guys want to answer that question about tangible and intentional? Another new product, some great insight. Yeah. I think that the intangible is… and, searching for spiritual soul.

Erin Ko

And, what's inside us? Emanating that. Outside. And journeyed back again. In a cyclical way. And, and your sculptures are… coming out from me into the clay. And, they are becoming tangible. Then… and then the energy gotten from them Into my work is… manageable. And it works. Cyclical. Wings.

Erin Ko

Do we have questions from the Zoom online audience?

Raise your hand, and….

Renata Janiszewska

Buddy?

Well… I have another question that's more important. Sits… You all kind of have some… Again, psycho-spiritual minds going on. Do you think this is indicative of the time? More… And your own practice, or do you think you would be making A crucible, or a collective consciousness. You….

Erin Ko

A game that makes you embody different people, different types of things. Times 4, the tracker. In space, but… but, do you think there's a… do you feel there's a greater need for this kind of work? Is the timing influencing you?

Erin Ko

Yes, sir. Because, we are all… we are all connected. We are, The world is just beginning to know now, what I used to say in the early 70s was, you know, when you go to the phone and you say, oh, I was just gonna call you. And, now we know them to be very low-frequency grain waves, which exist around us all. And that we are constantly in communication with everybody that we know, or everybody that they know, and that's made evident by such coincidences, which are not coincidences. They're already in action.

Erin Ko

And, and then when you look above that realm. To our ancestors, shining light down on us and guiding us. And, and the… The time is now. And… For everybody to… Cross-communicate. Intercommunicate. Interconsciousness, where we are in a time where inter-consciousness and cross-consciousness it goes beyond the collective consciousness. It's, more of a knowledge… there's more of a knowledge about… interconnectivity. And, and so, it's like my work is just… coming into being at a time which is now.

Erin Ko

And I'm grateful to be alive, to be able to experience it. You are a woman of a woman.

Erin Ko

For me, I think… Especially the time. Because a lot of my generation and Gen Z like, we're so hooked with our phones at all. They're just so sick of… Online meeting people. They are craving for the, in-person if I'm just talking with you on the phone, I can't sense the energy you're…. Looking out in the world, and then sometimes you just know, without saying to the stranger, you're gonna find out what Mike? But how can you explain that over the phone over the screen?

Erin Ko

I think right now, it's more, than ever. The timing is… The desire to connect with other people is stronger and stronger, especially for people who have experience with in-person communications, And then… due to the pandemic and everything like that, get deprived. For Gen Alpha, they were raised with the non-infrared. Which is quite hard for them to see the value of in person. I think the role of our screening. The more energy you send us from your peers, It's gonna create a wonderful… here at Downsville.

Erin Ko

Allow other people to be more in the we… The spiritual energy, the aug… Anyways… the, the concept of… consciousness. And that would be so lovely.

Erin Ko

I just want to say, you know, those drawings with the energy swirls. Around the tree, that was, conceived as, like, energy in and energy out, and, and we're at a time where we know that we can communicate with animals, we can know we can communicate with everybody, with everything, non-verbally. And, yeah, that's fine.

Erin Ko

I think… I mean, I think it's always… Time to make art. But yes, I do… I think… Feel an urgency Two minutes. That deals with… You know, search for new job roles. Although, like, trying to say something. I think… I think… Right now, Because there is such… Almost like… an unlimited amount of content being pushed every day, constantly, and with AI, it's just even being pushed further. There's, like, this need that I feel as a game developer, someone who works in tech.

Erin Ko

Art. But there's a need to build the fabric. With, well, like, human voices. Like, with my work, and like, with, just like… things that I think should be said, because there's a lot of noise that is not saying really great stuff. The world right now, so I think it's really important that we say stuff that… inspires others. To speak of as well. And that shapes reality. Yes, and that shapes all the fabric, the art that we switch into the fabric becomes the fabric of reality that we have a scenario in.

Erin Ko

Art is the presence of the human spirit. What else is out there? Spirit. Right on. We are… Now… presenting. Foods. Let's build a space. The space here. There'll be art experiments.

Erin Ko

Yeah, what was that term you used? Oh, it's psycho-spiritual. Yes. Well… Yeah, I've been thinking about it so long, actually, about, like, the, you know, why, why now? One, I believe, are kind of at the pinnacle of, like, technology. Need any more new technology? And I think, you know, everything is at our fingertips when we do anything. You know, there's always… we can always do more, but, like, What? With all of this power, Everybody has now. What do we want to do with it?

Erin Ko

We've got, like, early cybernetic study, studies. It was like 30, 40 years ago, people were dreaming about the things that we A lot of it was, like, about… Jason. Building technology now. Person down. And, and I think you updated. You know, vector is, forward return. Spirituality. They think a lot of… religion. Started being overturned. At the intersection of… Criticism. Judaism, Islam.

Erin Ko

We're hammering up all of these religions, we're just trying.

Erin Ko

He's a dogma to control. And we can now see beyond that. Right? And so, once you take away that veil, but there's still all these teachings, right, over, like, thousands of years,. Stuff, right? And they… Passing it on through,.

Erin Ko

We don't throw all of that learning away, so I think it's, yeah, we're at the technology, And also, like, information. It's very important for us to.

Erin Ko

Forum. Lisa. Good.

Erin Ko

Excellent. So, I think… That's it for now. That's big enough to end up. Thank you, everyone, for coming, thank you to our amazing panelists, thank you to our amazing audience here and online. Please stick around to play Fashionistas by Ben Babes. Do get out in your most fabulous look. I think some of the artists might stick around if you want to talk to them and ask them questions. And we have about a week left of this show. If you are in the New York area, please come visit it, please come check it out. Try Vibe Altar, try Soft Auto. Definitely come back on April 11th for the closing. We have amazing performances and presentations, including Gamma Time. You'll be able to draw with your brain with 3 other people, which is amazing. Recursive, tactile sculpture to XR to burning wave experience. Talk about bio feedback. Yeah, yeah, please come join us, please keep up with that.

Erin Ko

Expressionism, if you are at all interested, it's a fabulous group, you should connect. Please keep up with Pen and Brush Gallery, it's a fabulous art space, you should connect. Please keep up with it is a fabulous art salon. You should connect. Let us all stay connected. That is how we triumph in what feels like. But honestly, we are blessed. I am so grateful to all of you. Thank you, and….

Erin Ko

Alrighty.

Thanks to Aaron and to Tommy for tech support at Penn and.

Thank you so much to die. Thank you, Ordata, thank you, Colin. Thank you, Michael. Thank you, everyone.

Erin Ko

This…

Wraps up our portion of the home. Salon visitors. And thanks again to Aaron for putting together such a great panel. We will still have our after-party, and now I guess we're ready to conclude this part of the song.

All right, awesome. That was a great, session. Many thanks to Aaron and all the folks over at Pen and Brush, and, especially all the artists, in the panel. That was a fantastic, set of presentations, so… and thank you, Renata, for, co-moderating. So, until next time, I will bid you adieu. I think we have a, an interesting couple salons lined up for the next few months, so, that's kind of under wraps right now, but, looks like things are coming together.

Colin Goldberg

So, anyone who's, who would like to stick around for the afterparty, that's kind of usually when we share some ideas about upcoming salons, and I would certainly encourage all the artists at Pen and Brush if you'd like to be added to the Artist Index, just let myself or Renata or Erin know, and I'm happy to add you. So, many thanks for your participation and sharing your work. Alright, so that's a wrap. Thanks, everyone.