Salon 58 // Dreams

Welcome, welcome, welcome to our Techspress virtual salon. I'm your moderator, Davonte Bradley, and joining me today are at the moment about 24 other glorious artists. There could be more that trickle in, but if it's your first time here, I bid you welcome. And you don't have to be shy, but you don't have to speak up if you don't want to. I'm not going to force you, unless you want us to.

Davonte Bradley

But anyway, so how this works, or how it's been working for the past couple of salons that we have, we've been having a kind of a show and tell plus discussion around a particular topic. Two weeks ago, our topic was nightmares, and we had several artists share work that was either concerning. The idea of nightmares or the art that was kind of about a nightmare scenario that we went that they went through. And so the natural follow up to that is dreams and dreams, as defined by Merriam Webster, are a series of thoughts, images or emotions occurring during sleep or possibly an experience of waking life, having the characteristics of a dream.

Davonte Bradley

And then there's also the. The whole idea that, you know, a dream could also be an ideal or an aspiration. So that's what we're going to get into talk about and show today. If you would like to present your work first, just go ahead and raise your hand. If you're familiar with Zoom's raise your hand feature, so I'll see that in order of who does it.

Davonte Bradley

And okay. And then we'll get started. I'll just give it to you in order and we'll just go down the list and, you know, you'll show your work, talk about it and then have a little discussion and keep going as far as we can. Yeah, I'm not sure what else I should say. Always be kind and courteous and try not to speak over people.

Davonte Bradley

And yeah, good to go. So let me pull up my list real quick. It looks like Colin was actually the first one to raise his hand. No, I just raised it actually. So I'll let the rest of everyone kind of go first. That's weird because normally it actually shows it in order of hand raising. That's weird. Okay. Maybe because you're the host. Yeah, that could be it. I'm kind of also co-presenting. I'm co-presenting with Steve. Oh, there he is. Cool. All right. I'm going to raise my hand again. All right. Well, we'll get back to you then. Keep me at the end of the queue. Actually, no, you're actually off the queue now.

Davonte Bradley

You have your tramp. No, I'm kidding. All right. First up, we have Renata. And currently muted.

Thank you, Davo. Hi, everyone. I'm going to go ahead and start the recording. No problem. So this image here is a painting that I made based on another painting. So sometimes I do that. The way I see it. I think it's a painting where the seamstress would take apart a dress and use the cloth to make another dress of a different style. And in this painting, I was dealing with phenomena. So weather, clouds, stars, various natural phenomena.

Renata Janiszewska

And because I liked the painting so well, I decided to make it into an animation. And the name, the word psionic means the use of psychic powers or paranormal phenomena. And it's actually something that a curator in Toronto made up as a title for a show that he's curating. But I do feel that dreams have always been extremely important in my artwork. I can recall deliberately taking naps during the day to solve problems in my paintings. And so when I was drawing, I would always think about my dreams. You know, because dreams come from the unconscious. The unconscious is like my collaborator with everything that I make. And so in this video, it's about a minute long. There are several sequences that use very different elements. But the colour scheme ties things together. There are a lot of floating shifting planes and distortion of images.

Renata Janiszewska

And that's what happens in a dream. There's a kind of... Okay. Suspension of normal perception. This is a time-based work because the unfolding of an artwork through time is both metaphorical and simply concrete. This work embodies a fragmented quality of memory, and there's also a going in and out of systems documenting the micro to the macro. So with no further ado, I will show you a psionic hope.

Renata Janiszewska

You can see that the! Hey, that was great! Thank you. Anyone have any questions? Anyone have any thoughts, comments, or praise to give? I know we all just clapped, but anything they want to verbalize? I wanted more. Well, you heard her, Renata. I guess you should get on that sooner than later. Anyone else?

Renata Janiszewska

Renata, what was the element of hope there in your animation? Well, I think with dreams, there are times where there's hope. Often aspirations. So the fact that I was trying to summon up the shifting consciousness that happened during a dream. So I do. All right. So can I ask just kind of a quick follow up? So I mean, typically hope is a very volitional sort of aspect to our human psyche, whereas dreams kind of have their own life. And I'm not saying there isn't any sort of direction or connection. So I was just kind of curious, is the hope part what you're hoping the dreams are going to bring to you? Or do you just see the fact that you have dreams and you use them? Or as kind of the hopeful quality?

Renata Janiszewska

I think the latter is more. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, thanks for asking. Renata, did you find in the process of creating this animation, a synergy that happened as you had to recall and manifest imagery that would reflect your experience? I mean, almost as though you were dealing with another entity that was an extension of yourself. Was that kind of part of your process?

Renata Janiszewska

What I found was that I write and perform the music for my animations. And sometimes the music is what actually creates the formal aspects of the animation. So I'm actually responding to what the music is. How the rhythm is going and how the parts are, and so on, how the separations happen. Other times, I really have to be honest with you and say that for me, animation is just about the joy of working with form, with shape, with color, with rhythm, with balance, with all those elements that you find in a still work, but you get to extend them in a different way in an animation.

Renata Janiszewska

Does that help? Answer your question? Yes. Thank you. And I do have to say that I really found it a beautiful thing to watch. I just really enjoyed it and liked your color palette a whole lot. Thank you very much, Marlo. I appreciate the compliment. Harvey, did you have anything you want to add? I thought I saw your hand go up. When you offered the opportunity to show our work, that's when I put my hand up. I don't know if that still applies. Oh, I thought you had a comment for Renate. Yeah, no, you're still in the queue for presenting.

Renata Janiszewska

Okay. I do have a question, though. Yeah. You were talking about the theme of the meeting today was nightmares. Oh, the last meeting. Oh, the last meeting. Yeah. So this could be Techspressionism, which I think I have to show. It could be that. Yeah. Am I correct? Right. Okay. Yeah. Two weeks ago, we had a salon on nightmares. So the theme and art that was being showed was on the topic of the nightmares. And then this meeting is a follow up to that about dreams. So all the work that's going to be presented today is going to be about dreams. I see. Yeah. And that's kind of the discussion topic as well. And can a dream be a nightmare?

Renata Janiszewska

Hard to say. Can you dream of a nightmare? Sure. I think that's possible. It's a little interesting to think about conceptually, though. Bradley, do you have something to add? Yeah, I just wanted to comment to Renate. I really enjoy that the music is such an integral part to your work. It's such a powerful part of your creative process. It really shows that those two, your visual element and your music really just they feed off of each other. It really shows. I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Renata Janiszewska

All right. Was there anything else that anyone wants to add before we move along? I just wanted to say that I really got the macro micro sense like from the piece like zooming in. It just felt like I was going into microbes and sort of biological, like looking through a microscope and sort of zooming out to like more of a cosmic view. Yeah. I think that's really interesting.

Renata Janiszewska

Thank you, Colin. And I really loved your comments on that your subconscious is your collaborator in everything that you create and that you take naps to solve art problems. I just thought that was brilliant. And I love your piece. If I may comment on that, it's a matter of submerging yourself. Like I learned how to do that. I learned how to go down just for a little short, like 10 minutes, 20 minutes. Sink down into that. Almost asleep, dreamy, dreamlike state. Go back to the problem in the formal problem in the painting and often the solution would be there because I allowed myself to relax with it.

Renata Janiszewska

It works, works for me. The power of like deep meditation and things like that. It can help. All right. I think that will be it for that. So again, thank you, Renata, for your presentation and your art. My pleasure. All righty.

Next up we have, I think it is Harvey that I think you were the second person to have your hand up. Yeah, thank you. You're welcome. One of the reasons I'm here is because of Colin. I'm a I'm a friend of mine lives on Long Island and he saw the show you had at the Southampton Arts. And he called me up and he said, you know, I think your work is this Techspressionism.

Harvey Birnbaum

I didn't know if it was or not. But I looked into you. I watched your interviews and I thought I think I was I found my niche. OK. But after I after I show my work, you might not agree. We'll see. You never know. So that's what I like to show you some of my work. And maybe you can. I open up to any kind of comment. I will say my work being seen on the computer.

Harvey Birnbaum

Is very detailed. I mean, I picture them blown up, you know, each one of these blown up pretty, pretty large because there's a lot of things happening in those four in those technical art pieces of art. And I'm going to show you my portfolio where I did. Remember you saying that if you if you think you are a Techspressionist.

Harvey Birnbaum

Then you can call you that word Techspressionist. And that's what I put in my portfolio. And I'll show you to you now. And screen share. OK. And let's see. Here we go. Share. OK. So. This one is called wine. I think it's pretty obvious. I call it wine tasting. And I have to make room so I could. OK. Here we go. Here we are.

Harvey Birnbaum

This one is I don't have a name for it yet. I'm still working on my portfolio. Is this done on the computer? This is all on the computer. OK. Multiple software programs. I use. What I do is. I might have an idea or something I'm trying to create. I don't really know exactly what I'm really doing. I keep experimenting.

Harvey Birnbaum

Till I get close to something I really like. And I hope other people like it. And that's what you'll see. So. This one I don't know if you could see it. But. It's a baby's face. Or a young person's face. Within this abstract. This one is. I just call it wheels. Simple. This I call brainstorm. And. That's what it looked like to me. And.

Harvey Birnbaum

This is what I came up with. Let me see something. There we go. This is called puzzle 101. You know it's kind of strange showing your work on the web. Everybody's so quiet. Well, we're normally quiet here because usually everyone is. Taken with what they're seeing and trying to analyze what they're seeing. So everyone's like, it's a quiet contemplation. Yeah. I'm still trying to analyze my work. Yeah.

Harvey Birnbaum

So. Anyway. This I call wild child. And. This is. This I call pickleball. It's some photographs I used in there and everything is. Everything is really. Original work of mine. None of it is purchased. Visuals. That I integrated. It's all. Photography that I've photographed. Or created in some of my other works. And I've done a lot of work on my software.

Harvey Birnbaum

And overlaps. And I overlapped a lot of things and merged them. To create these textures and colors. And. Whatever they are. They are. This one is. I call it inside government. I'll let everybody interpret. My. Titles themselves. That's what I believe. Like, for instance, this one. I just know if I, if I ever have a showing. In a gallery. Has to be big. Because there's a lot of detail in this too. A lot of my photographs have people in them. But.

Harvey Birnbaum

You have to study. The photo. And. This one is a seafood restaurant. I'll just go quickly. If anybody wants to talk or ask me questions, please stop me and I'll do my best to talk about it. This one I call Statue of Liberty. I really like this one and the brain one very much. I want to like to see it very much. I appreciate it.

Harvey Birnbaum

This is called Polluted City. I could definitely loop this back to the first one. This is wine. Wine tasting, I call this one. Okay. So I try to keep it just to under 10 photos. Yeah. And that's what it is. So I'm trying to figure out how do I get back to the... Oh, stop presenting. One second. I can actually help with that. That's great.

Harvey Birnbaum

There we go. Thank you. You're welcome. Harvey, you're in the right place. Yeah, I was actually about to say that. You'll fit just fine here. Thank you for showing your work. I've been here a couple of times. And I said, you know, you got to build up some courage to do this. I said, but if you... If you don't show it, no one's going to see it.

Harvey Birnbaum

And that's it. You'll just be at your computer all day long creating these pieces of art. And no one will see it. You don't even know if they're good or bad. Yeah. But except for my friend in Long Island who told me about you, Colin. Are you based on Long Island as well? No, but I lived there for about 30 years until... Until... Until... Maybe nine years ago, my family pushed me to move out here because my kids live here. And we're in an over 55 community.

Harvey Birnbaum

See, the COVID actually gave me a good reason to stay at my computer and create these things because I enjoy it a lot. That was definitely a lot of us in here. We... There was... I'm not sure how many man hours combined that probably everyone put in during COVID. Since, you know, most of us have been isolated, but it's been a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So that was good. Harvey, this is Jaime. Sorry.

Harvey Birnbaum

Jaime. Okay. I'm going to say hello to the team expressionists. I live in Long Island, in Astoria. And I would like all this team of expressionists. To join, probably, if you can. I belong to the Long Island City artists, which is located in Astoria in Long Island City. And the name of the gallery is Long Island City artists.

Harvey Birnbaum

You can become a member. It's not expensive. It's if you like to display your artwork. We run exhibits almost like every two and every three months. And the fee in order to be able to participate and to cover some basic fees from the people that work is like a $75 per year. And then you have the opportunity to display your work whenever we place the call. I don't place the call, but the gallery does. However, I'm a part of the board of advisors.

Harvey Birnbaum

So because I already have done maybe 20, 30 exhibits in that gallery and any other places as well. But I would like all of you to invite, take a look at if it's convenient for you. And if you like it, you can join us. And I see that your work has a lot of potential to be on display in the gallery. Since you mentioned to me that you are a member of the gallery.

Harvey Birnbaum

We are an organization that has been doing this for about 20 years. And we are going to be able to take you to the gallery. So we are going to be able to make you an Foundation. And it's just a little bit of a walk in the gallery. And it's just a little bit of a walk in the gallery. And it's just a little bit of a walk in the gallery. And it's just a little bit of a walk in the gallery. And it's just a little bit of a walk in the gallery. Square feet and that is going to be going at full advertisement in these next few weeks and I will I will post the name of the galleries over here in the chat room in the chat room probably you can take a look at it study get familiar with it and if you like it go for it I encourage all of you to do it I think you have a very good work all of you have excellent work I'd love to look into it jay jamie correct what was the name of the gallery again how do I get in touch with you yeah I'm going to put a post in here in the chat room and I'm going to copy the links to the two galleries that one is one is long island city artists and the other one is culture love we have we have events every week and you're going to get spoiled if you like it so I would like to invite all of you to join this artwork it's live performances artwork sculptures it's you name it so and when I'm one of them then you like to advise what to do sounds great thank you thank you for sharing those resources with this I'm going to post in a few seconds what I can do for you guys okay thank you so much and back to harvey's presentation but again you very much fit in here so you are your work is very much you know a part of I think the Techspressionism ideal or not ideal but the spirit of expressionism because that's what I call it on my portfolio website techspression but underneath I did write abstract because I don't know how many people know about Techspressionism expression we're working on that well maybe I can help yeah go for it that's what it's all about is people who identify with the idea and you know being able to tell you tell us about the idea of Techspressionism and I think that's really important One person, you know, I describe my work as Techspressionist.

Harvey Birnbaum

And all of a sudden, now that the term has, you know, migrated into another person's consciousness, you know, so. And it's a little bit of a tongue twister. You know, a lot of people add that extra syllable in there, like Techspressionism. But it's really just expressionism with a T. So Techspressionism.

Harvey Birnbaum

And like, you know, it's sort of, if you think of it that way, it's easier to pronounce. It could be a little bit of a tongue twister or a long word until you hear someone else say it. But one thing I did notice about your work that I think really does make it fit or does you know, it shows that it fits is that the way you talked about it, it was like, you know, you didn't really know what you were going to get, but you were experimenting. And to me, the sort of kernel of what expressionism is about is that it's an approach versus an end result, you know, and the process of exploration of ideas through technology, I think, is what, you know, kind of unites a lot of the artists in this group, even though the outcome might be markedly different, you know, stylistically or conceptually. Yeah.

Harvey Birnbaum

Well, I'm curious. I just posted the two links. I just posted the two links to the galleries. I would like to see if you can see it in the chat room. Did you post it in the Facebook chat? It was in our Zoom. Oh. I don't know if you can see. That's what I just posted. On the bottom of the screen is a chat. Yes. That's what I put. Is that where it is? Yeah, I just put it. I pasted it already. Oh, posted to everyone? I don't know. Yeah, you might have accidentally sent it as a direct message to someone. I posted to everybody. It says direct. Direct message to even. Yes, to everybody. Because I don't see it in the chat. I'm not sure where else I can see it.

Harvey Birnbaum

Yeah, it doesn't show. We'll get this sorted out at the end. Yeah. But appreciate it. But yeah, we'll definitely get this figured out before. What was the name of the museum or studio? Okay. Is NIC? Artists.org. L-I-C-A-R-T-I-S-T-S.org. I'm sorry. I didn't get that. Can you one more time, please? I got it. I just posted it. Okay, great. I found the site. It's in the chat. Okay, great. Thank you. Okay. There are two galleries. Gallery. Right.

Harvey Birnbaum

Culturalraft.org. Yeah. And the other one is LICartists.org. Oh, wow. Yeah. You get it? Yeah, I got it. Thanks. Great. All right. You have some beautiful work up in there. You are welcome. And you can join it anytime. Okay. I'll be in touch. Sure. No problem. Just one more thing. If you want to send me a message, I think I'm in Instagram as well. I'm going to put my name there anyway. Please.

Harvey Birnbaum

All right. All right. Well, there you go. Connection's being made. But in the interest of getting back to the salon, if you want to network and things like that after the salon, we normally do hold time afterwards. Okay. So you can exchange resources and ideas and that kind of thing. But I see that there is a couple of people that still would like to present. So I'd like to get back to them. But thank you again, Jaime.

Harvey Birnbaum

Well, thank you for the opportunity. You're welcome. I've been wanting to talk to Colin ever since I found out he exists. All right. Well, thank you, Harvey, and thank you, Jaime. Okay.

Thank you. All right. So next up, I think we have Marlo. Hi there. Hi. Hey. Hey. I actually have a nightmare that turns into a dream. That works. So I've pretty much journaled about my dreams since I was a high school student. Fascinated. Did my own little research. And some dreams stuck with me. Some didn't. But there was one dream that kept occurring as a young child. I think in middle school I had the first dream.

Marlow Shami

Variations through high school. As a young woman. And I put together a 90-second animation about that dream. Briefly. Essentially, there was an energy. A force. And it would drag me. And it would grab me by the feet and drag me. And it was frightening. I always woke up. One dream in particular, the force was behind a huge wooden door. And it started breathing. And the door started breathing. And the wooden slats of the door cracked a bit and locked it. And the light came out. It was just frightening.

Marlow Shami

But eventually when I believe you don't pay attention to dreams. And I stopped journaling after a while. Life got busy. And I wasn't looking into them as much. So they kind of disappeared and went under my radar for a bit. 25 years ago I met a woman, a fantastic Jungian analyst who also she utilized Rubenfeld's synergy method which is essentially body work. So she connected body, mind, and spirit. And in my work with her, the energy actually manifested and revealed itself as a very pissed off 10-year-old girl named Sam. And the thing that I learned about through Sam was that I had all this anger and energy that had sort of been kept inside. And so that was kind of my spiritual insight because of the home life I lived in which was unpleasant and violent. Also because of ancestral trauma.

Marlow Shami

My father's people came from the Black Sea caucuses, that area. And suffered a lot of extermination during the Russo-Sarkazian War. So there's 100 years of that war going on. And my father's people suffered. And my father never talked about it. So he held those scars, so to speak, or energetic impressions.

Marlow Shami

And I inherited them. So I did a lot of work with it and a lot of healing. And this therapist, Anita Green, really helped me understand the connection between our various things that go on in our lives, joyful things, traumatic things, and energetic impressions that we hold when they don't come into our consciousness.

Marlow Shami

I had notes. I didn't look at them. I think I covered everything. I'm going to show this to you. Yeah. So, yeah, this is my interpretation of the process that I went through, the colors. Oops. Somebody else is sharing here. I guess I need to share a screen. Somebody else just shared. It wasn't me. So the images in this dream are all symbolic. The colors, the fish, the water, the sound of the ocean. You'll see some legs float through. Those are actually, that's a photograph I think I've shown before that I created back in the 70s when I did a whole series about fish. And I had to make a video about my disconnection at the time before I had gone through this transformation and began to understand the power of that energy I was suppressing and eventually let out in creative ways and positive ways.

Marlow Shami

So let me find this. Okay. Swimming Dreams is the title of this animation. So I'm going to start with the old music. So I'm going to start with the old music. So I'm going to start with the old music. So I'm going to start with the old music. So I'm going to start with the old music. So I'm going to start with the old music. So I'm going to start with the old music. So I'm going to start with the old music.

Marlow Shami

There we go. So stop share. That's great. Thank you. You're welcome. All right, folks. Thoughts, feelings, praise, other things not explicitly included. Cynthia? Marlo, it's an incredible video. And I really get the sense of, the kinds of things you mentioned before, having gone through many things, the fish, and then of course the person who's half leaf and half tail is fascinating.

Marlow Shami

And to see that all of a sudden there's this tremendous disarray of the fish. And then within that, there's this one fish person who then accumulates so much, so much that, there's probably a burden I see. And then eventually by the end of the video, there's this lightening of the burden. So I get that sense of the difficulties and the challenges, and then light occurs, a lightness.

Marlow Shami

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. The, the fish actually are carp and I did have a dream in which my, I never dreamed about my father. And in this dream I did, and he had thrown fish into a fire and I was really upset by it. It took me forever to figure that out. And it was a very healing action that actually happened.

Marlow Shami

The beautiful thing in the process of this kind of body mind, psyche collaboration with Anita, the young in was that there's a lot of transformation that goes on. And I could understand some of the symbols I wouldn't have if I hadn't collaborated with her. But thank you for that. Thank you for showing it.

Marlow Shami

Steve, you have something to add? Yeah. I just found it very hypnotic in a, in a way that just sent me into another kind of head space. And I think that's, I did feel a little bit like I was dreaming or in a dream space. You captured it. I think the music really enhanced that feeling because it was a little bit of a drone in the back. And, and then the way the images flow against that sound really created a space that was very successful. It took me into, took me into the dream space. So, you know, very, very beautifully put together. Thank you, Steve. Thank you.

Marlow Shami

Yeah. Anyone else? Yes, no, maybe so. Or people just ruminating on it. Oh, hold on a second. Getting a little ahead of ourselves. One second. Well, it does not appear that anyone else has anything to say, so I guess that'll wrap things up. So thank you very much again, Marlo. And thank you for your presentation.

Marlow Shami

Thank you for your attention. Always a pleasure to watch and present here. That's good to hear. If it was a negative experience, I think we'd have to change things. All right. I don't, I don't know when Colin's hand up went up in relation to everyone else's. Obviously he's just going to be hanging out at the top. But, I think, I think,

Gopakumar? Is that how you pronounce your name? Yes. Yes. I will share. I have a presentation, about me and, my traditional art practice and digital art practice in a shorter way. I can present here. Okay. All right. So I'm up to you. You can see that the live room is now also more than just a business place.

R. Gopakumar

So I'm going to let you know that I'm just going to work on that. So I'm going to let you know that I'm here. So I'm going to let you know that I'm here. So I'm going to let you know that I'm here. So I'm going to let you know that I'm here. So I'm going to let you know that I'm here. So I'm going to let you know that I'm here. So I'm going to let you know that I'm here. So I'm going to let you know that I'm here.

R. Gopakumar

New media, art, public art and experimental arts. Many short-term courses I completed. And my work, motion photography art, were shortlisted in Saatchi Gallery London and many more organizations in art too. My works exhibited Saatchi Gallery London, Great Britain, Gaddafi, France, ReArt Ukraine, Museum of Modern Art, Yoko Ono History, Kochi Misrits Binali Collateral, CACA Museum, Kensey Institute, USA, Behrin Museum, National Gallery of Modern Art, Nodalhi and many more.

R. Gopakumar

I am India's major digital art collector. I have more than two years of experience in 250 artworks from 150 plus artists. The names are described here. Few my traditional artworks I'm showing here. This is a contrast series, which I had prepared what mixed media. Terracotta glass painting, oil on canvas and many other mediums I used. I used to for to create this project.

R. Gopakumar

This is a lungi series. Actually, this is prepared for Kochi Misrits Binali Collateral Project. This work I prepared traditional lungi, intoning on a traditional lungi cloth. This is another one of the traditional work which I had done for based on the pandemic situation. Theme. My motion photography selected Saatchi Gallery London, Tate Britain and Sophia Underground Festival.

R. Gopakumar

I will show you one of the, these all are layered images I created. Many different kinds of images I made collage and did the animation manually. This exhibited Saatchi Gallery London. And also this must not be beautiful exhibited Tate Britain. This is the exhibition of Saatchi Gallery London. I started my digital art practice from 2008.

R. Gopakumar

I am vulnerable member of Imaginee Poesia, one of the international artistic literally movement from Italy. The following artworks I prepared, a collaborative work, poets and myself. I inspired poems from them and inspired the artists. And I created this all digital artworks. This is few more digital projects.

R. Gopakumar

Linguistics River is an online art project. This is user can enter their notion in this river. The other person will enter their notion. This will pave a way for the new one. Here the spectator takes the role of a creator. And the creator tends to the viewer. This is the concept. And a few more projects are here.

R. Gopakumar

This is another project which is like prepared for 101 great Indian portraits. This is a new way to prepare all the digital images through a new style. I prepared and displayed in a larger installation. Now I am more focusing on generative art. This project explore aesthetics of abstract nature and the same time fusion of ephemeral nature, natural changes.

R. Gopakumar

This works spring, summer, autumn, winter and monsoon. This is the seasons I prepared. I will show you one of the video. I am not seeing. Okay. Yeah, I think the it is your video being played on a different screen. Because it is not showing up on this one. Are you seeing this? I think it might just be sharing that window that you are showing that presentation in.

R. Gopakumar

. You probably have to stop the screen share and then resume it with the new window. Yeah. Okay, one second. Then I will come soon... I will get you started. Hold on. So now reshare it and reshare it as like your whole screen and not just the window. Okay. Whole screen. Are you seeing? I am seeing your security and privacy window. Thank you. Now what about not seeing, right? No, not yet. Not yet.

R. Gopakumar

Okay. Then new share. Maybe new share I can show. Are you seeing? Yep... ity.!. Principal. … Means open google or sorry YouTube free music and I will I will show you the same in a yeah this is another set of work based on elements series this is space air earth water and fire I will show you one of the animation which I had new share and I will show you one of the animation which I had creating an algorithm through a generative art this is some of the open source code but I am re-editing and modifying for the purpose but I like the more conceptual work than any you know that's why I mixed concepts and you know this kind of generative things in my all works so And some of the publications which my works and portfolio published, these are the few publications.

R. Gopakumar

I am planning to create a collaborative partnership with engineers, musicians, scientists, dancers and theorists to create more conceptual Techspressionism, experimental immersive art. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And we definitely do always appreciate new artists coming to present whatever their works and what they've done so far. So thank you for that.

R. Gopakumar

It may not necessarily have been on the topic, but it's fine. It's definitely fine. Did anyone have any comments for it? Gopakumar? Gopakumar. Gopakumar. Yes. Okay. Got it. Anyone have any comments? Thank you, Gopakumar. I saw your work on Facebook. It was truly beautiful. I wish I could see clearly in here, but unfortunately, I think the internet connection didn't function very well. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, but it was really nice. So thank you.

R. Gopakumar

Actually, if you want to, could you actually drop a link in the chat? To your art pages so that if people want to go back and look at the animations themselves, that they can see it? Sure, sure, sure. All right. I think that would probably make some people happy. Sure, sure, sure. The generative piece, I saw you mention that it was done with ActionScript. So was that put together in Flash?

R. Gopakumar

Yeah, it was done through Flash. But now I shifted to animate because Flash they dropped and now Adobe started to animate software. I can... Both. And I created through Flash only. Gotcha. Thank you. Go ahead. I was... Yeah. Wondering about the piece that you did, the pieces that you did that had the dots to the right of the image. And you took the palette that was within the piece. And then from there, you created another piece or the piece on the left. Can you tell me more about that? Yeah, the color palette, the generative art is picking the color from the right dots.

R. Gopakumar

Dots or the video or for example, fire, the color of the fire will be narrated through a generative animation. Color from the water, picking and showing narratively drawn as a generative animation. Are you getting me? I think so. When you had the one that dealt with the water, we only had the water. We only had the water. We only had the water. We only saw part of the image. Is that because only that color was being shown as the image began to expand?

R. Gopakumar

I think that there was actually lag with the video. So it looked a lot more incomplete than what it actually was until like the very end. I will put the link here. You can yeah. Yeah. That way I can see it on my own. Thank you very much. There you go. Anybody else? I don't know. Bradley, I think you had something. Yeah. I really like the range of work that you brought and enjoyed seeing you evolve through the years that you presented.

R. Gopakumar

It's always interesting to see how somebody grows and experiences just growth through their artwork and experience over the course of time that you showed. I really identified and picked up on the 101 portraits piece that you showed and the detail that you showed from that. I really liked that project a lot. Thank you. It was. Thank you for showing that. Thank you.

R. Gopakumar

I think that's probably about it. I know we actually have about 20 ish minutes left. So I want to make sure we get to every one of them. But I think we're going to get to every one before things get wrapped up. So then thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for being here. All right. Next up up Colin. Did you want to wait till like the end to go like or did you want to go sooner than later? You know, whatever. I'm happy to go at the end of Steve if you're cool with hanging out until because we kind of wanted to show a project that we worked on collaboratively. So yeah. I mean, I could be pretty quick with it. I don't know.

R. Gopakumar

Am I part of this, this decision making process. What do you think what's on deck. Before two other people before. Yeah, it's a Lucy and is that Chani. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it's two other people. Go for it. Cool. Yeah, we started I think at 542 so we could probably go a little bit longer. Yeah. Okay.

R. Gopakumar

Alright, so,

Lucy, that means you're up next. All right, thank you. You're welcome. So, I've gone back to exploring the Kinect device. It's a camera camera device this is a Kinect. It's a has a RGB camera full RGB camera and a 1k depth sensing camera. And so I'm going to be doing more sort of interactive works and I haven't worked with Kinect before but now I'm sort of going back into it. So, for, for this or dreams. And just crazy to be able to do this. So, I'm going to be doing a piece. More exploring a dream state dream dream dream like quality, using, using this device, and I'll share my screen.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

And This is a video I recorded. Actually, you know, I forgot to include audio. Let me share again. All right. So this is one minute, and then I'll also show the piece interactively. Interactively. So just playing with flow and fragmentation. And I like... Separation that the figure gets from the background as well. So separation of myself from my environment is sort of another dreamlike kind of quality.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

So, and then this is the interactive volume, except that the Zoom controls are getting in the way of me actually playing this. Let me see if I can figure this out. Always fun to see Unity being used for art purposes like this. Nice. I'm just going to take a minute to see if the camera is still on. It is floating around, which causes that separation from the background.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

All right. So that's my dream, dreamlike quality that I've been exploring. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it was great. Lucy, would you consider this a self portrait? Yeah. I was actually going to ask something similar. That's the impression I got. But I loved it. It was beautiful. Thank you. It was beautiful.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

Especially the fragmentation part. That's especially the self portrait. Yeah. It was all fragmented one way or another. Yeah. The last one I thought was the best of your dissonant, coming apart. Yeah, that's always something I like to explore, just dissolving things, dissolving into each other. So yeah, wanting to play more with interactive experiences.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

So. You continue to impress me, Lucy. You have this innate sense of motion that is just beautiful. And it definitely hits the dreamlike quality, the disillusion, like Harvey just said, and coming back together. That sense of motion. It's very watery and dreamlike. Yeah. It hits deep. That's really well done. Thanks for sharing that. Thank you. I really enjoyed your work, Lucy. I have a question.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

What does the water element symbolize to you in the presentation? Just floating, ethereal. That. I'm always wanting to express that sense of belonging and being part of the environment. That we can belong in an environment in a way that we are the environment. We're with it. We will dissolve into it. And if we can feel that sense of belonging or being a part of it. That's what I'm trying to express.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

Yeah. It's interesting that many of the other presenters tonight likewise had a water component to their presentation. And maybe that's part of the human subconscious. Something that we share. And associate with the dream state. And the subconsciousness itself. So I really enjoyed it. Thank you for sharing. Thank you.! Lucy, I really felt a part of the video.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

I felt that I was you in there. And I felt the dissolving. I think it's that powerful. Thank you. You know, I made a choice when I was actually recording the video. I demonstrated the effect live. Where I'm moving around. But in actually sort of crystallizing the image. Because my intention was not in motion. When I started crystallizing the video. I chose not to record myself in motion. I chose to record just a still frame of myself. Going through that watery flowy dissolving effect. Effect.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

And somehow I just felt like the still image going through that flow was somehow more potent than me interacting in the video. So I don't know, just saying. I think it worked. It was very successful and I very much enjoyed it. Thank you for showing it to us. Thank you. Lucy, your comment about the potency of being still, I mean, when I think about that, oftentimes the depth in whatever it is I'm dealing with happens when I am still, physically and psychically and emotionally. So I just resonate with what I saw and what you said, and that came to me as I was thinking about what you shared. So thank you, though. It was great. Thank you. It was quite beautiful and moving.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

Thank you. All right. Well, I think that probably should wrap it up for Lucy here. So thank you again, Lucy, for your presentation. Thank you. It was great. Thank you, buddy. All right. All right, moving right along. Am I pronouncing

Your name correctly? Is it Chani? Yeah, my name is Chani. Sorry, guys. I had to make a mistake. I had to turn off the camera sometimes today. I'm still able to be in Korea, traveling the USA for participating in SIGGRAPH. So please don't mind if I say something look like fully the person who are so sleepy.

Chanhee Choi

I wasn't sure what should I share the video because this is my first time to join the meeting. Ah. I really appreciate you having a chance. But I have so many different videos. But today, the topic is dreams. So I decided to show something is clear about the topics today. It was my work, the performance art and video artwork. I made it in 2016. The name was Eating Myself.

Chanhee Choi

And then the concept of the Eating Myself came to me. It was from the video art. And then I made it in 2017. So it was my first time actually in nightmare. So it might be more fit to the last meeting if I was joined last time. So I had a dream that I was consumed myself. Like at the end, I completely disappeared. It wasn't like that the horror nightmare, but I was just trying to inhale myself. And then it was surrealistic. Not really like the things I usually do. I usually had to happen. Maybe I was too stressed about the life. Yes, that's right. So it made me ask myself, what would happen if I ate myself? And then would I become twice as big or would I disappear? So I wanted to transfer these questions into a positive experience that expressed my feminist view. So I'm going to share my video.

Chanhee Choi

It has a little bit other content. So please, I hope you guys don't mind. Can you see my screen? Yep. … I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't know. Yep. Fantastic. Thank you. Very expansive and exciting. Yeah, I made it like eight years ago. Hopefully the technology seems not too old. Oh, no, I think it was fine.

Chanhee Choi

Also, definitely would have fit in a lot better with last time's theme. But, excuse me, but what is a nightmare but a dream that just scares you? Yeah, that was great. Yeah, thank you. It was painful to watch. Yeah. And it conjures thoughts of how people dealt with mental and spiritual suffering through self-mutilation and abuse of the self.

Chanhee Choi

Was that an intention or did you want to just capture pain in general? Thank you. Did you know the work at the Bunuel at all? I'm sorry, would you mind to repeat, okay? It's the French filmmaker Louis Bunuel. Well? Oh, yeah. Louis Bonheur is my favorite. Yeah, I mean, it had a lot of feeling. It doesn't look at all like that work at all. Yes, I really got the feeling of, of, of that film Shannon Alderloo, which obviously, you know, Andalusian dog, which was made, you know, in conjunction with Salvador Dali.

Chanhee Choi

Yeah, really had that, that it captured that kind of surreal darkness and mood. So great. I'm happy to hear that there is possible inspiration there. Thank you, Steve. I think you read my mind. And the Lucian Frog is the favorite film. I keep watching it even for my dissertation in PhD study too. Yes.

Chanhee Choi

Lucila, did you have something you want to add? I really, really enjoyed it. Very sophisticated and I agree with Steve and the film comparison. Thank you. But it was yours, I mean it was separate and different. I think we oftentimes, Sometimes when we create something in reference or in almost inspired by the works of people that we really admire.

Chanhee Choi

We want to stand out enough but also have enough of the references so that people can like yeah no you were definitely inspired by that yeah I could see that. But you made it something completely your own as well. So I think that's kind of like the ideal scenario. Area. Exactly. The ending was stunning. Oh, yeah, please go ahead. The ending was beautiful and stunning.

Chanhee Choi

Thank you so much. I agree. I thought that the disintegration that occurred at the end of the last maybe third of the film got the point across in terms of the disintegration of the self. I had a question though. Why did you decide to use the circular shape in this film rather than another shape? It's because I think that making this performance purpose is not allow other people to just watching it like setting up the performance show. But still there is some performance people can watching it using the binocular sense or the you know some of the to be honestly I was thinking like the peeping tom idea of the peeping tom was what I wanted to audience just to see as a perceptions of the view of my performance months.

Chanhee Choi

So I tried to make that sound like a very weird but I want the audience to see me from just one side of the shape of the round shapes to see me like through the cameras or like the peeping Tom in the traditional way, not like the setting of the show. So maybe I'm not really sure if it is enough to talking about it, bring it out, but that's what I was hoping to be. I didn't think it was weird. I just wanted to understand why you wanted to choose it. And you've answered that, the idea of a peeping Tom or a look through, a voyeur. Yeah, voyeur or a telescope in order to see something you wouldn't ordinarily see.

Chanhee Choi

Thank you. Thank you for showing your film. Now, Johnny, a quick question about your soundtrack. That was very, it's visceral. I just, very organic. Did you, you put a lot of thought and energy into that, I assume. Yeah. Thank you. It sounded like, it sounded like eating and cooking. Yeah. Yeah. It was from the original sound of performance that I had the musicians to make that sound. They recorded my actual performance and then they are repeating like over the 100 times to make it sounds like the weird, how to say, like a weird, the tone of the music, like synthesizing them. And then they just play around with it.

Chanhee Choi

Thank you. Thank you. Actually getting down to the wire, so, but I want to say thank you again for your presentation and thank you for your contributions to the conversation and discussion. Thanks for being here too. Like, all right. All right.

Susan, still here? Yes, I am. All right. And I'm hoping this is going to work. Fingers crossed. So many mac users here okay you seeing that dream dreamy roses yay okay so this is pretty short I made a keynote about my idea that the roses rose pieces that I'm making as nfts feel dreamy to me and about a kind of meditative dream feeling and I started making nfts of the rose images the summer of 2022 and when I looked back over the collection I could see how the pieces fit the idea of dream with their kind of ethereal presence and this is the name of the collection and here's another one.

Susan Detroy

Can you hear anything? Thank you. So those are a few from my collection that I'm making, moving roses from. And some of you know this, Cynthia was the first participant in a collaborative NFT. That I made and this is a scan code and I'm and actually just a coincidentally today was the first day for me to for me to mint a collaborative nft with cynthia she sent me a rose image and a characteristic and I made one that I put in the collection today and those are generally how they are looking these days and I thought that it had a connection to kind of serene kind of dreamy feeling thank you thank you and you know I think it's interesting how common of a feature like when you when people talk or like try to like depict dreams water or fluids are very common things that pop up a lot of times and I saw I think two of yours featured water I think yes several of them in the collection eat your water and there was one in particular that rotates yeah that I thought initially was under was anyway comments from people have seen it whether it's underwater or on top of the water but I when cynthia I think it was cynthia mentioned that about water and I thought oh that's right a lot of the pieces that I'm going to share have a feeling of flowing or water in us so yeah definitely caught that thank you anybody else have comments I'm looking expectantly at your faces a little bit more than you do I'm not sure if you're not the one that's on the left anyway I thought they were all very beautiful susan and in fact one of them brought me back into the dark room I could have sworn it felt like this one image was coming up under fluid and developing but really they're quite lovely and congratulations on the collaborative nft that's really cool that comment was brought up in a twitter audio space and I hadn't noticed it but I have many years of being a darkroom photographer and I didn't even I was I had no awareness until tommy I don't think he's here now mentioned it in a twitter space I'm like oh my god yes I'm glad you're so conscious it's embedded in you forever we're all connected and if anybody wants to participate let me know there's you know just get in touch with me use the qr code or email me and the next one will be I meant them on the full moon which is today it's the full moon so the next one will be full moon in january and you can have a conversation or you can just send me through the google form but thanks man thank you susan sorry you guys out of nowhere that last blue one I could just stare at that for a very long time I really enjoyed that one it just took me to some nice places I kept looking at it and then looking at it again noticing more things about it the longer I looked at it so thank you for the experience and I just wanted to say it's a wonderful opportunity to collaborate I'm bowled over with what susan did with my rose it happens to be a rose that was part of my mother's funeral bouquet so it had a very special meaning to me and we all know that it's a lot of work and it's that was the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really made a yes and it's that's the first time that my mother really And I think last but not least, we have Colin.

Susan Detroy

Yeah, so I don't know if I saw a message from Steve. We're kind of pushing the time limit here, but I think that this piece is, you know, very fitting for this particular topic. Steve, if you're game, if you want to, you know, still show a little bit of it or talk about it briefly, I could share my screen and sort of pull it up. But basically, you know, the short story is it's a piece called Dreaming Brain that Steve and I collaborated on. I think it was either 1999 or 2000.

Susan Detroy

And it uses an antiquated technology that I was able to actually get up. And running yesterday through an emulator. So, Steve, if you're if you're down to talk a bit about it, I'll put it out. I'll see if I could pull it up. Okay. So can you guys see my desktop here? Let me see if I can boot up my. It was done in 1999. 99. Okay. So can we party like it's 1999? 23 years old.

Susan Detroy

My favorite number. And booting up my old Mac in a Mac. So this is running OS nine in a sheep shaver, which is an emulator and was able to actually get this bad boy online last night at the public library using this browser called Class Silla, which is a modern day equivalent of Netscape built to run in a an emulator.

Susan Detroy

So. Okay. So let's see here. The layers of technology at work here. Dreaming brain. So yeah, I was it was sort of astonishing to actually see this running and I had to install an older. Actually, it didn't have a new enough quote unquote new enough version of QuickTime player so I had to download QuickTime six through a an old Mac repository site.

Susan Detroy

But this was lovingly hand coded and simple text in 1999. That is actually my brain and MRI. So there's some artifacts here. I don't know exactly why these blue dots are showing up. But Steve, if you want to just give a quick back story about the project that might be. I mean, the project Colin had introduced me to QuickTime VR. And I saw like the way you can create these environments. And the goal was to do a very kind of comprehensive world that in those days interactive meant clicking on stuff and going somewhere else. So each of these things that Colin showing you is a VR that's been stitched together from a lot of local imagery on the East End of Long Island. And, you know, kind of took you to art historical references like this one's pretty obvious.

Susan Detroy

You know, this, I guess, was all, you know, Lichtenstein, Brancusi, The Kiss, you know, there's lots of Klimt, Miro, just references to other to art history. And, you know, the idea was to kind of create this space where you could kind of wander without end. And there were. This was shot in a local greenhouse in Long Island. That's a train in the background if you're hearing that. So it was a symbol of images and being able to click on and go to other places and create this kind of otherworldly space. Now, this was 23 years ago. So we were not working. That's cross sections of my brain, actually, that I had done in a lab. So I was doing a lot of work. I had to work with technology and that language and I had the fortunate circumstance to have the ability to work with Colin and this was the effort and ended up being part of a show about Freud's interpretation of dreams.

Susan Detroy

That was a traveling museum exhibition curated by Lynn Gamwell. And this was our contribution. There's a book as well. You want to do well to see this actually working right yeah I mean these were the ones that were working. These were fields, you know, I mean it was is kind of create all these kind of crazy nature spaces but you can see the sort of integration of another sky.

Susan Detroy

And, and then you can flip around the space and go to different I think each one of these was at each VR was a different planet right so this must be Saturn that we're looking at now. So there was a combination of like an actual spot that was shot with. It was a Sony Mavica digital camera which actually you inserted three and a half inch floppy disks into the camera. And then the panorama was stitched together using QuickTime VR authoring studio which was an Apple product that allowed you to stitch the images together and also create these hotspots.

Susan Detroy

And as I recall the, the project was also sponsored by Meta creations. So they gave us a lot of information. They gave us a lot of their software which was pretty fun at the time, things like they made poser and a couple other different character, different other sort of 3d type programs that were used in the production of the piece so. So college, you know, scrolling around the kind of planets that were in the solar system and then these are kind of what happens, you know, in each different planet, and we got silly in some cases.

Susan Detroy

These are some of your actual childhood toys right yeah right. Yeah, this is sort of a psychoanalysis of you. Now this is this is our state of my brain. I like that monster maze. That's actually a real maze in Long Island I don't know where's that take you to call instead of. I mean, I'd love to be able to get this up and running somehow yeah virtual machine. Yeah, people could access it online.

Susan Detroy

This is amazing Long Island one of those corn mazes. This is amazing Long Island one of those corn mazes. The world is like a mobile solstice. And this is like going through the maze and then each, you know, each place you can click on like you go back to another planet. If you go in the sky or go down the maze, and, you know, go to different places. So I guess this is college decided to click on to another planet. So, if you know the Easter and the Long Island that's all of these. These are chromosomes, a portrait I did of someone's portrait were actually took their blood to a genetic lab.

And... And... Took electron microscopic views of their chromosomes splitting in mitosis and under electron microscope so it's it was just a really fun project this is a painting lorjean dumont origin of the world that I've done someone's portrait where she had twins and it's the sonograms of the two twins in her belly and that was a kind of a portrait commission so that's some of the imagery I was playing with early technology as a language system to look at portraiture and landscape and kind of fed all the other stuff I did but it would not have been possible without the collaboration animation you know these are all revolutionary at the time so yeah at the time it was fairly advanced it probably looks pretty primitive and cartoony but I think it's still works on a certain level so yeah well hopefully we can get this up and running but it's vintage now thank you it actually is very kind of you to say that and it is live at dreamingbrain.com but in a modern browser you're gonna get you know basically you're gonna get to the splash screen and then once you hit a quick time vr pano you're pretty much sol unless you're surfing in an emulator so I figured out that if you went to every every link and explored it you not that anybody would but you could spend about three hours looking at it so you know you can spend two seconds or you know really kind of explore and obviously you know it was kind of inspired or partially structured on the primitive you know anyone see the game mist anybody old enough to remember oh yeah so it's kind of like some version of that kind of mist world where you have to figure out how to get to where you want to go and you can wander around for ages and not get anywhere so that's the nature of my brain but it truly was a collaboration with Colin it was sort of one of the many things that we've worked on together including Techspressionism yeah awesome how far things have come a lot of fun we had a good we had a good time doing it Colin did you have a good time doing that I did that was that was a prior phase of my life it took forever this was months of work going city was calling every day to put these things together but it was yeah it was really it was a life bonding project crafted in alphabet City all right do you still have it do you still have the spheres the actual the what do you mean the spheres like the panoramas yeah I mean there was a you know the you know the spirit map panoramas because there's a lot of programs that you can that you can generate an online installation with those oh yeah I have all the dot mov files if there's if there's something that you know of you know they need to be JPEGs oh the MOV's the MOV's won't work in other words you need to have you need to have the static image set images that the is so what happens is that I did an installation with a bunch of panoramas.

Colin Goldberg & Steve Miller

And it's not really the same thing, but in other words, something that you went around with these things. But the thing is, it's called 3D Vista. It's about 500 bucks. But it's that much because it's a program made for real estate. And it's really, really well made. But the thing is, is that it will generate something that just goes right to the web. And I'm sure there's less expensive programs to do that too. But I mean, it's just like basically taking a real estate tour program that takes these things and allows for hotspots. I'm sure that you could reconstruct it. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I'm not sure what will happen with this, but it was encouraging to see it running, you know, in an emulator. And I do have the files to be able to run it locally. So minimally it could be set up as a site-specific installation on a machine running an emulator.

Colin Goldberg & Steve Miller

Or if there could be a way to run an emulator in a virtual machine on a web server, that's what I was sort of like brewing up in my mind as a possible solution too, which would be kind of... Yeah, we'll definitely do this for our joint rep. It's a good retrospective for sure. RyZome might actually be able to help out with that actually. I think this project was on RyZome for a little while. And then, I don't know, maybe just all the plugins required made it sort of defunct.

Colin Goldberg & Steve Miller

But I mean, what I'm saying is that they're really, they're really, really involved with, you know, with legacy emulation and things like that. So in other words, like with some of the technology that they've been building, they might be able to run that and run it locally. And that's kind of the reason why we're doing this. So I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. Oh, nice. Yeah.

Colin Goldberg & Steve Miller

Right. We've got a connection with RyZome. So that, you know, that's another conversation. Thanks, Patrick. Great idea. Not a problem. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, just give Michael a call and he might be able to tell you something. Well. All right. All right, folks. It is a little... Overtime. Yeah, it is overtime.

Colin Goldberg & Steve Miller

So thank you all for coming. Thank you all for stopping by. Thank you. Thank you for contributing. This is going to conclude the end of our recording session. I would love to see you all next time. Thank you. And you're all welcome to stick around afterwards if you'd like, if you have any endurance left, and we will minimally pick a topic for the next salon after the recording ends. So, Davos, you want to count us down? Yeah, can do. All right. And we're signing off in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

Colin Goldberg & Steve Miller

And let's wrap.