Salon 55 // The NFT Space

All right. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome everyone to our Techspressionism virtual salon. The date is the 26th of October, right before Halloween, and things are getting spoopy in some places. I know we've updated our doorbell's ringtone to be like the... I'm not even sure what the name of it is. We looked it up, but it's like box...

Davonte Bradley

It's... Yeah, that. So yeah, we're going all out, kind of, but not really. Anyway, joining me is our community, or some of our community of wonderful artists that we have. We have Colin Goldberg, who coined the term Techspressionism, and helped that get off, and helped introduce me to all these wonderful people.

Davonte Bradley

We have people like our great wizard. Michael Price over there, and just a bunch of other familiar and some unfamiliar faces that I have not seen before. But yeah, we've been doing this for over 2 years now, and I hope it keeps going for a very long time. And today we have for our discussion, or the way we're our format for today is another open discussion. It is about something that is. Has been circulating the media now for probably about a year, year and a half or so. Or actually, well, I mean it's been circulating for longer than that, but didn't really get to mainstream attention until fairly recently. The grand scheme of things. And that, my dear friends and viewers, is NFTs. The things that people, some people love to hate on. And then other people are literally making their whole person hate on them.

Davonte Bradley

And there's a whole personality about it. It is a very controversial thing that has you know utility. I will say that it has great utility for a lot of things. Communities have popped up circulating around entities. People's careers have changed as a result of NFTs. It's been a life change experience for some people as well, because they've been able to capitalize on it in such a way that they've done things like pay off their student loans. Or buy a house for the first time. You have people in, you know, less than or countries that are doing not so great economically. They're able to, you know, bring themselves up, support themselves and survive. All based off of crypto and NFTs. So it's something that's exceptionally disruptive for a lot of the, I would say, modern paradigm, so to speak.

Davonte Bradley

And it's got a lot of big corporations interested. It's got. It's gotten a lot of blowback because, you know, when something's disruptive, everyone's got to have an opinion on it. And that's what we're going to talk about today. So I guess the first question that I'm going to pose to everyone that's here right now is, you know, what are your general thoughts on NFTs at this time? And anybody can raise their hand and I will get to you in order. But that's

That's how we're getting things off. All right. All right. No, no one has thoughts. Oh, people have thoughts. It's just that was like me. All right.

All right. Guess we will kick things off first with Colin.

Hey, Dava. Yeah. I just wanted to say. You know, briefly. You know how I first got introduced to NFTs, which was through this group. And it was really one of the artists who started coming early on Andrea Bonaceto, who, you know, he was the person who sort of he was minting stuff on wearable at the time. And I was also on wearable playing around and just sort of getting my feet wet. And he kind of helped me. You know, go through the process and we were chatting. And then a couple of weeks later, I saw that he had done this project with Nifty Gateway, where he basically minted an NFT in collaboration with a humanoid robot from a lab called Hanson Robotics in Hong Kong. And it made headlines because the collaborative piece sold for somewhere around $700,000. And it was a story that actually saw my local news.

Colin Goldberg

It was one of those syndicated stories. And I almost fell off the couch when I was sitting there with my wife. Like, I just chatted with that guy recently. And like, here he is on the news, like doing this project, which totally blew my mind. And, you know, since then, you know, the phenomenon has really just kind of gone beyond anything that I would have ever envisioned. As far as the popularity of it goes. And it's really interesting to see how, you know, we were this little sort of community that was happening.

Colin Goldberg

And now there's all of these NFT based communities that have sprung up on the Internet. And, you know, I sort of see Techspressionism almost as like a bridge community that is, you know, like a lot of the people who came in here. We're coming from the standpoint of being traditional. Artists, you know, working in physical media, you know, myself included, you know, in terms of like feeding both camps. And so it's just been a really interesting evolution to see, you know, how the how the space has how the NFT space has developed and how like we've sort of grown as a group. Skojo, you know, definitely has been a big driving force in, you know, connecting us to Niftorian and that team over there and the whole accelerator program. Right. Yeah. I think the Niftorian program has been an awesome educational experience, you know, for anyone who's interested in learning about NFTs and minting.

Colin Goldberg

I'd highly recommend, you know, getting in touch with the folks over in Niftorian and applying for their accelerator program, which has really been, you know, been a great experience for me personally. But I'm just going to share the time. You know, if there's time later on, I'd be happy to share, you know, some stuff I've been working on. And, you know, I would definitely encourage you guys. Over the course of this salon also, as long as Davo is cool with it as moderator to share, you know, what you've been doing through screen share as far as any kind of recent drops or if you have a drop in the works, you know, let us know what you're up to. And, you know, definitely show and tell. So I'm going to share the time.

All right.

Well, thank you so much for that, Colin. All right. I'll add to that, though. All right. You know, as this community is concerned we had quite a few people that were very skeptical at the start about nfts and you know their place in the art world or art community at large and you know their feelings that it's like a short-term gimmick it was a fad that kind of thing but I think at least some of those people have probably actually changed their tune at this point oh and I wanted to also mention

Andrea, who I mentioned early on, I just reached out to him recently. A piece, an NFT piece, I believe at Christie's. So definitely has moved in a very fast trajectory as far as this area goes. I'm going to paste a link to his site in the chat, too. And there's an interview on the Techspressionism site that I did with him early on. And I'll share that in there as well.

Yeah, I remember that, too. It's crazy. All right. Thank you for that. And again, that link is in the chat. If you have that pulled up, you can go ahead and click that. If you are a viewer on YouTube. Well, we'll see. All right. Moving right along with Bernada.

Well, I think that NFTs are an excellent tool for artists, visual artists and writers, actually, as well as other artists to find a conduit to expand their audience and also to increase the revenues. Yes. Yes. So I don't know if you can see that. And I'm enrolling in the state of New York. And I'm just going to let you know that I'm with the ref as I'm about to get an interview. The live questions. So I'm here to look at the question. And I'm about to get you to the question. And I'm about to get you to the question. And I'm about to get you to the question.

Verneda Lights

And I'm about to get you to the question. Painters and whatnot. And I moved the group to explore the use of artificial intelligence in shaping the narrative that the other artists and I would develop around the theme of the essential nature of artists in our society. And the ultimate objective, of course, would be NFTs.

Verneda Lights

The society at large is not really ready to embrace NFTs. People who love art are very suspicious, oftentimes of artificial intelligence. But my thoughts are that if we do not put our imprint on this narrative. If we don't put our imprint on this narrative, then we will not be able to develop an art that is a multi-billion dollar industry.

Verneda Lights

And how many of us have a chunk of that? Not a whole lot. It would be nice to gain part of that market share. And I don't think that it's a far away dream for us to be able to do so. So I am pro NFT because it ain't going nowhere. Yeah.

And I know I've made that point before. I've made that point several times myself. At this current time, they are called NFTs, but the concept behind them, that's not going anywhere. Like the idea of using something to generate residual royalty sales off of a piece of artwork, that's not going anywhere. Like being able to have a public ledger of exchanges, that's not going anywhere. So at this time, the name NFT is probably going to be pretty well known, but it's going to evolve into something else. And people aren't going to even realize that the idea was initially an NFT at the base.

Right. Yep.

So I'm waiting for that time.

May happen sooner rather than later. We'll see.

Good. And I'm keeping a mental note of all the naysayers so that like when it does happen and it does eventually change, you know, the narrative, it's going to be a good thing. I'm going to change this name. I was like, huh? You're seeing its praises now. But before you were. Did not think too highly of it. So what happened?

Davonte Bradley

Wait for that moment.

Money happened.

Yeah, that. All right. Thank you, Vernetta. All right.

Next up we have Tommy.

Tommy. Tommy.

How do you think you're going to work on that? I think that worked, right. Okay. Yep. All right. Thanks. So I'll take up that challenge of being the naysayer since nobody else has. I am. Deeply. Skeptical. And participating fully. In. The NFT. Sort of phenomenon, if you will. And I agree. Cohort of people that are switching from Twitter to Reddit, and they're already saying they're not NFTs anymore, they're digital collectibles, or this or that. So cool.

Tommy Mintz

I'm not a skeptic that they're going to survive. I was talking to a curator, and by the way, I agree. Vernito was saying, you know, it's only a matter of time until galleries really embrace it. And that's happening right now. A lot of the sort of more forward-thinking galleries are very much using NFTs within their, I mean, they're like, hey, you know, if somebody wants to pay us for it, we'll sell it. No problem.

Tommy Mintz

That said, it does foreground commodification of artwork as the point, which I have a problem with as, you know, somebody who comes from a mindset of fluxes or data, of making things that are unsellable. As a digital artist in the past, I had no problem with that. But now all of a sudden, my work is completely commodifiable. And how does that change how I approach it? And how does that change how I approach it? And how does that change how I approach things? How does that change my attention? And I got to tell you, I spend a lot of time checking my history and object and seeing if I had a sale since the last time I checked. It's, you know, is it Skinner, the rats that, you know, hit the button, and they're not sure if a piece of food is going to come out. And sometimes it does. So they always keep hitting that button.

Tommy Mintz

I kind of feel like I'm in a Skinner box. So it's an interesting moment. I think it's something that we should document, because I think it is the beginning of something much greater that, you know, we're really building right now. So I'm not going to say anymore. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.

And it's always nice to have dissenters. We don't, we don't always or even need to be always in agreement. I wouldn't even think that's an ideal situation. Because sometimes you miss things and discussions when everyone's always in agreement. So as long as it's done respectfully, anyway, which I don't think anybody here has a problem with that.

Davonte Bradley

All right. Next up, we have Michael Price.

Hey, Davo.

Hey. Yeah. Yeah, I've definitely been on the skeptic side, not for the technology itself, but for me personally, as an artist. And so I would like to talk, I guess I have an announcement. And I'd like to share that with the group. It's, it's really interesting. Because if it weren't for Techspressionism, if it weren't for Skojo, and Niftorian, this project for me probably would not have happened, it would have been probably in some other artists hands. So I would like to share my screen if I have a couple minutes here to talk about this.

Michael Pierre Price

So this is a project that I have been involved with for the last several months. You can see this? Okay? Yep. All right. So there's a there's a group out there called crowdfunded cures. And it is approaching being able to fund clinical trials for medicine. In the US, obviously, we all know that new medicines cost lots of money costs lots of money to develop. And it's all based on patents. And so what crowdfunded cures is approaching is a new way to raise money for charitable medical purpose, where the donations are paid out, for successful clinical trials. And this is the this is the big factor in this is that clinical trials are needed in order to get insurance companies, the medical community to get behind whatever that medicine is.

Michael Pierre Price

And so crowdfunded cures is looking to use NF T's and my artwork now since I'm involved, to help raise money through donations, where the NF T's will then be pooled, and become like a fund for those people who want to get out there and do clinical trials for medicines, that if they can get successful clinical trials, that then crowdfunded cures will help fund those successful trials. So it's kind of a retroactive funding mechanism.

Michael Pierre Price

Thank you. Their initial area in which they are funding or looking to fund are psychedelics for medicine like ketamine. And there's been a lot of early trials that other people are doing for things like PTSD and other areas where psychedelics have been shown to have efficacy. Efficacy, now we need like really good clinical trials where that could be done. And this is where Crowdfunded Cures is looking to get in to help. Clinical trials and then finding new medicines that aren't going to cost an arm or a leg that will be available at much cheaper rates.

Michael Pierre Price

So what's going on is I got noticed through the Niftorian process when I did my presentation back in summer. And a friend of mine invited another person to come and see my artwork. They thought I was good. Corey's here in the audience. Thanks, Corey. And so here's what's going on right now is that crowdfunded cures is going to distribute this first NFT as a ticket to get to their Discord site prior to launch.

Michael Pierre Price

And then just before launch, they're going to allow those people who are the ticket holders to get this other NFT as a free access. Corey Wilkinson, MD, Title compliance advisor at Snowhole eensafflesobics.com Corey Wilkinson, MD, Title hopefully maintaining some sense of integrity in the work without without going to you know some are better than others but I had to create everything based around this idea of psychedelics as medicine so using the DNA double helix the ketamine structure of the molecule as artwork artwork I tried coming up with different ideas like oh what if Leonardo Da Vinci might have you know stumbled upon something like this so trying to create interesting different kinds of artwork based on this thematic idea I went even and did a you know something that would have been like a Victorian Steampunk idea where you've got where you can see a bit of the DNA molecule and then the others behind that.

Michael Pierre Price

Now the big thing here again like I wanted to emphasize is the idea of clinical trials and so I created some artwork like what would it look like if we could do psychedelics in medicine so I thought about the old apothecaries and make these very accessible and available and psychedelics dealing with the mind and how the mind can change perceptions and how our perceptions and how the chemistry inside our body oftentimes dictates how we see the world around us and so a lot of the artwork that I created was around the eye sorry for the for the noise hopefully it's not too loud and so these are some of the artworks that are going to be included in the entire NFT collection

Went with different went with different landscapes

And the last thing that I wanted to notify or to show is that I didn't want to create something that was all just like grandiose or going into La La Land of psychedelics this is an important factor this is an important thing that where nfts can do good for humanity because in this in this last piece that I wanted to show this umbrella which is kind of shielding the two central characters is created from the medicines and the people outside there indicate how often people do not get access to medicine because they can't afford it this is an alternative model that hopefully is going to be able to provide access to people getting medicine so thanks for letting me share and present the present the project that I've been working on oh thank you really interesting and something I can get behind because it's not just creating JPEGs but it's actually creating artwork that goes along with something that goes with donations that can help scientists, pharmacy companies, other people getting behind this and hopefully raising money for doing good.

Michael Pierre Price

Thank you. I know it took a little longer, but I just wanted to get into the whole thing. So thank you.

Thank you. And that's a very important part about the discussion, especially when it comes to I will say the people that aren't even necessarily in or working around NFTs, they tend to focus on like the incidents that scamming happens or that people are being exploited out of their money and that kind of thing. And they only focus on that and just completely ignore all the positive things that have come from these ideas and this kind of work. And I think it's incredible that's happened. And I personally, I try to change those conversations when I see them veering into that territory, because I mean, just like any kind of good thing or even new thing that happens. Yeah, sure. People are going to use it badly. Like that's going to happen. But you can't discount the entire thing because some people are using it badly.

Davonte Bradley

There's actually plenty of things that fall into that category. The Internet, for example, one of those things like the Internet as a tool in itself itself. A lot of potential for good. Some people will use it for bad things, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the entirety of the Internet is this bad place just for scamming people and, you know, tearing down humanity. It's not so nft is essentially an extension of that whole idea it is a it is a tool or good or bad whoever like whoever the tool user is that's how it's going to be used and if there's more good people using there's going to be more good outcomes that come with it

Right and next we have Renata. Thank you Davo. I have a question I'm going to show short video and I've never had to do anything first about sound but do I need to do something about sound?

If you're going to share the sound, there's like an additional setting when you click share screen. I think like this little up arrow that says share with sound or share with optimized sound, something like that.

Yeah, there should be. I think it's a checkbox.

Yeah, I see it. Yeah. Yeah, I got it. I got it. So we're good. OK, so I started making. What's this going on now? Password. Sorry, folks.

It's all good. We're used to technical difficulties here.

OK, there we are. I talked to Giovanna actually. She was the first person who gave me some help with buying crypto when I decided to go into NFTs on my own. As an artist, I've always felt very independent of organizations. And clubs and institutions. And so it felt like this was a way of taking back some.

Renata Janiszewska

Control or it's just another way of expressing the work that I do. So my project that I'm going to tell you about is called Marlin Spike and Marlin Spike is a castle where Marlina Svenska-Jaszewska, who you see on the screen here, she lives there. And here you see her in her seat. And she's wearing a sergeant pepper's garb. And much like Charles Dickens, Marlin Spike is a saga that goes on for quite a long time. And what happens is when people purchase one of the NFTs to do with the story, then it unlocks a chapter on my website.

Renata Janiszewska

So this is a true story about Marlina Svenska-Jaszewska. And that's what I'm going to talk about in this book. And I'm going to talk about the story of Ola. And I'm going to talk about the story of Ola. And I'm going to talk about the story of Ola. And I'm going to talk about the story of Ola. And I'm going to talk about the story of Ola. And I'm going to talk about the story of Ola. And I'm going to talk about the story of Ola. And I'm going to talk about the story of Ola. And I'm going to talk about the story of Ola. And I'm going to talk about the story of Ola.

Renata Janiszewska

And I'm going to talk about the story of Ola. Marlena is there as your guide, your interpreter, and your seducer. Do you want to see what I mean? She's in front of the candy pane inn on a lovely spring day. It's nice. The sunlight dances on her shoulders. Now slow down and look at that moving bank of clouds above her.

Renata Janiszewska

They're going to change. Something is coming. Lights have come on in the inn. Look at its windows. The derangement begins. So there are various characters in the story of Marlena Spike, including things like the ampersand you see here. There's another view of the candy pane inn. That's what it looks like. It's on foundation. And I'm proud to say that one of the Marlena Spike videos has been accepted into the Techspressionism collection. On foundation.

Renata Janiszewska

Quickly, I'm going to take you through my other platform, which is First Dibs. And I have both still images and video on this one. I call them animated NFTs. The stills belong to a collection called Indigo Gastroquill. This is a still. This is a still from one of the videos. And I'm going to close by playing you an excerpt from Rock a Spikey, which has been screened in a few places. But I've also got it on first dibs as an NFT. So please crank your speakers up high. The music is my own, as are the images.

Thank you.

Just before I close, I wanted to say, give a shout out to Niftorian and Skojo, who told me about the project. I was in their first artist accelerator program for NFTs and I highly recommend it. Thank you. Thank you all right okay

Moving along I think Susan is next

Hi hey hey hi so I'm just gonna I had some thoughts to share and I also wanted to share a little bit of what I've been doing because I am doing nfts and mostly I got started because for a couple of reasons which may be true for others which had to do with the fact that I was already doing digital work I shifted from hard copy photography mixed media pieces and I did that I started shifting around 2016 but when the pandemic started I just went totally into digital and then I found the salon I found the salon and I was going to the Techspressionism salons and at the same time I'm in a group called art next level a mentoring group with Sergio Gomez and at some point in the last year he started talking about nfts and he created a course through through his through the online platform so I did the course first and I thought about it and then I watched what other people were doing I watched other people do the neptorian and I also went into my files I have like thousands of files and I started cataloging them into sections that I thought might be good for nfts like this is before I'd done anything little did I know where I would end up going and then through that process I decided to start to see them and there were people that helped me like I asked questions I asked Renata I think I remember asking Cynthia questions because I did not understand how it was working and then as I slowly got into it I began to feel like it was kind of an adventure like a challenge like I got to figure this out and so I was watching other people and watching the people that done salon and I chose initially to use still images from my files that and I just happened to pick roses and what happened for me was I went from posting these still images that were created in a way that I was already working which was with iPad and creating textures and then I started moving into using and I had this whole idea that I would do like six or seven and that would be it I'd do another collection well now I'm at a number 17 in the series and I'm starting to do video and so it for me it was truly an artistic adventure.

Susan Detroy

I went from one place and I ended up in another. And the work that I'm doing now has evolved. And I'd like to share a little bit of that. Let me see if I can do this.

Okay. Here is my collection.

And I'm going to just go back here and show. So this is how it started off with these stills. These are still images. And I have them in my photo lab too. And then it ended up here. And I'm going to go into my photos and show a couple of these bigger. So these pieces were based in the ideas that I had about what things are beautiful and the And then I started doing things like this. Let me see if it will play. I'm not sure the best way to play this. I'm going to try.

Susan Detroy

I started using video editing apps to create these sort of vignette motifs. Tommy used that word motif when he was talking about it. And then I was writing stories. So within each of the pieces, I have to make that stop. Stop. Oh, it'll play. He plays here automatically on that. Stop. Okay. That's okay. Okay.

Susan Detroy

I write a story. And the part that started what started happening is that the roses took on a symbolic meaning. Meaning. And I began to think about how we as humans present in the world and how the contemplation of the roses and their way of being could be a vehicle for us as humans. And so over time, I began thinking about this more and more about how can we be kind and reflective human beings and use the roses in that way. So I'm going to show the last one that I created.

Susan Detroy

And also, I decided to use, here

It is.

I also decided to use Spanish because I lived and went to school in Spain and in Mexico when I was younger. And I taught Spanish as a younger adult. And that language informed me about how I part of my consciousness. Sometimes I just think in Spanish a little bit. And I wanted to bring that part of myself to the front more. And I thought that also using more than one language was a way to communicate that had more than one avenue of communication.

Susan Detroy

And also, I studied botany. So it ties a lot of my experiences together. And I am in the Niftorian accelerator. And I hope to be my plan is to produce more of these and also to bring in some kind of utility. But mostly, I'm hoping that people who are interested in contemplation and being better humans will be able to see that. And I hope that people will be part of what who I connect with. So, okay, I need to get out of the share.

Susan Detroy

No.

Stop share. Well, thank you so much, Susan. You're welcome.

Thank you for sharing. We often have flowers popping up in some of my works too, inadvertently, but it happens.

Yeah, the world of roses is pretty. Big. I didn't know how much it was. All right. Thank you. All right.

Next up, we have Patrick.

Yikes. Okay. Well, that's not a good response to start with. No, no, it's kind of interesting because I mean, let's see here. I think I take a almost like an inverse bell curve on this sort of, you know, like a bell curve. Yeah. Situation. Because of the fact that I was aware of, you know, this sort of thing coming when a good colleague of mine, Kevin McCoy, did some of the first experiments in creating the space in 2015. And then I was part of this part of their, his project called Public Key Private Key. That's in the Whitney Collection in 2018. That's going to have a second component to it. That's going to be on Ferrell File next month, actually. But no, it's strange in that, you know, it's that NFTs, I, you know, I think of in this. Way that having been, you know, someone who's been between contemporary art in the second life space, you know, saying that, well, you know, just the contemporary artists just need to get, I mean, the contemporary curators just need to get in the second life and see what happens.

Patrick Lichty

And they'll, they'll understand that, you know, all this, this is exactly what we need to do, you know, and there was a point where the Chinese artist Cao Fei did a, did her interpretation of, of. Beijing in second life and was showing it at Serpentine Gallery. And I just kind of said, okay, well, we were, we were discussing this while they was being built. And afterwards she was just wondering why, you know, people didn't, you know, weren't, weren't engaging with it. And you know, and when she offered for people to work with her on the, you know, on, on a project on the. On the island for.

Patrick Lichty

You know, for a major biennial, it's like not too many people came. And I think what happened is, is that what this told me is I said that kind of quoting, you know, you know, choreographic angel, there's like, there's many art worlds, you know, and, you know, and I think the NFT space is, is a new one with its own set of characters. And, you know, like the second life space. Actually did have a lot of contemporary artists in it, but, you know, it's, I think this whole thing is a Venn diagram.

Patrick Lichty

And, you know, I've been very slow with it because of the fact that I have a friend, Vinay Gupta, who was part of the launch team with Vitaly Buterin, you know, for Ethereum. And he wrote the, he wrote the blockchain policy for Dubai. And then there's a book that. A very good friend of mine. Ruth Catlow edited called artists rethinking of the blockchain. And she just did a talk at the Serpentine.

Patrick Lichty

And so the thing is, is that to me. You know, I said, okay, this is, this is interesting. And I, you know, I follow up, you know, with Christian saying that this is not a medium, you know, it's a, you know, I think really the biggest function of this thing is that. Is that. It gives, it gives provenance to something that could not be proven well before. And I think that's, that's, you know, I think that's really probably the biggest innovation that, you know, that blockchain, you know, blockchain and, and assets, you know, have, and then that then captures value, you know, which, and I think that's benefited artists a lot.

Patrick Lichty

But also on the other hand. You know, things like Bitcoin and Ethereum. You know, have been proven to contribute to. Global, you know, I mean, climate change, but the thing is, is we can also then, you know, say, okay, what about, what about, what about streaming? What about this? What about that? Well, they all do. So they all need to be, you know, looked at, but. You know, I'm starting to get.

Patrick Lichty

You know, so this is. This is why my first NFT, I do NF2 entities, but not many did one called these 7000 Oaks do not exist having to do with. You know, the, the website, these, these cat, this cat does not exist. This person does not exist. You know, it's based AI based. I did 7000. Oak trees, you know, using AI because AI also.

Patrick Lichty

Pulls a lot of pulls a lot of CO2 and I made an NFT with it. And I did a lot of stuff with it. And I did a lot of stuff with it. On object, which. Yeah. Uses a Tesla's chain. Which I actually. I'll get to in just a second. But. You know, it's, it's just the fact that, you know, I've always thought about NFTs as something. That I wanted to get involved in, you know, as, as. As a delivery method when it felt right. And.

Patrick Lichty

You know, and. When I felt like there was like a body of work. And this is a delivery method and that sort of thing. And it's kind of worked and I've only. Right. Kind of felt right about it, you know, you know, from a. From a critical point of view. And. So, you know, what, what I think is that. I think that there are a lot of improvements. And.

Patrick Lichty

You know, in, in the field. I'm going to say the field rather than the space. I look at it as a, as a. As a. A field on a Venn diagram. In that. You know, with the Ethereum two popping out. That Tezos is becoming a. The, the efforts of the Tezos foundation backing up artists a lot, you know, looking at Tezos as a, as a, as an art chain. I think is really interesting to me. And being that it's relatively carbon neutral. I think is really encouraging.

Patrick Lichty

But then, you know, so. You know, I have some bodies of work, which I'm probably going to, you know, probably going to mint, you know, and, and I'm also very pleased that in the game and I are. When the game, of course, at this point is. Is. You know, managing. Today is the 40th day of the, of, of the.

Patrick Lichty

You know, of the death of Masa. Amini, which is, has been a very big day. And so we were online a little bit, but you know, the, the blackout is still. A problem, a bit of a problem. But anyhow, we're happy to be part of the, the Techspressionism collection as well. But, you know, I think it's, I think.

Patrick Lichty

I'm very ambivalent. And on one hand, I think that there are so many. Friends of mine in the art space, you know, and a lot of the people who've done like the Christie's and Sotheby's things are friends of mine who've done, you know, the, the early things. And, but there, I just see so many people who have basically just kind of really chucked a lot of their integrity about a lot of their values. They've had, you know, basically chasing, chasing money on this. And that's not a problem, but I mean, you know, it's, but the thing is, is there seem to be this kind of allure. To this. Is there some sort of like a sense of like, oh, well, this is just like a whole book of books and stuff. This space is almost sort of like guaranteed money. And it isn't because of the fact that. It's a space that is a space unto itself.

Patrick Lichty

And if you get established when the, in that space and you get people to believe you and you create a value proposition. That's a perfectly fine business model. You know, I mean, and I know that I'm probably not sounding fun. You know, and sounding probably too academic and too critical. But on the other hand, I also think about things. I think NFTs, as they become more carbon neutral, are a fine space to get involved in. I'm kind of interested in the NIFTorian myself. But on the other hand, I also realized that the... I sat in on a lecture at the Albright-Knox where Tina Rivers, Ryan, I forget who was with her. They were talking about conservation and they were talking about basically GIF as being the only foul type that survived since 1990. And TIF is the only really truly migratable foul.

Patrick Lichty

And TIF is a form because it's completely unencoded and you can take that data and you can turn it into whatever it has, just the raw data. And what does that mean? It means that I think NFT has a lot of... If you can nail down a lot of the CO2 problems and you can nail down the idea of migration of digital media as a... As a...

Patrick Lichty

And the curatorial problems with it. I think there's a lot of stuff to it. But the thing is, is that we were talking about this. In other words, it's like the chains are going to change over time. And there's no guarantee that the NFT as we know it is going to exist in five or ten years or blockchains as we know them will exist in five to ten years. And that's just technology. So, I mean, does that mean... You know, we should poo-poo it or this is... No, no. But I think, you know, so it's like Davo, as you were kind of saying, it's like there's the for and there's the against. I said, no, I think we should just be going into this when it feels right and when your eyes are open and you know what the...

Patrick Lichty

You see the mechanism for what it is. And... You know, and I think that's... You know, I've only... I only have three NFTs in collections. You know, one is the oak piece. The other one is one of the pieces that I did from my 3D scans of the UAE. And that went through the British Journal of Photography.

Patrick Lichty

And the third one's in Techspressionism. And I guess... I hope that I haven't completely not already bored everybody. But, you know... But, you know, with this really deep, deep dive on it, it's just a matter of saying, I think that NFTs... You know, NFTs are a part of technology that are evident and they're here and they're things that we need to think about. But I think what happens is that I think that there is like either for or against it. But I think really what happens is I think that they deserve... They deserve a deep dive on what they are. And how they affect us. And, you know, whether they're right for us. And whether we're, you know, how we feel from a perspective of our own practice and our own integrity.

Patrick Lichty

I'm done.

Thank you for that.

Sorry, that was... That was a lecture and I apologize.

No, it's okay, Professor Lichty. Yes. No, but... No, you're right. But... And we do tend to look at things as either being for and against. But, you know, there... That is kind of a nebulous thing, too. Because it's like, for me at this time. Or... Like, it changes. Or it can change. Yeah, sure. And I think, in general, when it comes to a lot of things, just nuance is lost.

Davonte Bradley

Because people very much want to stick to a camp. When they're discussing certain topics like this. But the camps themselves are... They're nebulous. Because, you know, there's often overlap between ideas. Like, there's things that you can agree on. It's like, oh, I'm not... I can't consent to that quite yet.

Yeah.

And it's supposed to be a discussion. But it doesn't always end up being a discussion.

No. No. And what I think is very interesting is, like, with, you know, various camps of... I'd say mediated or networked art or things like that. Or digitally mediated... Digitally facilitated art, as I think Christiane would probably wind up saying. Is that, you know, there's... You know, camps want to promote... Camps want to, you know, want to champion themselves. And there's nothing wrong with that. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. But what happens is... Is that when you come in with... You know, kind of things like... You know what? It's like, I get you here, but I'm not quite right with that part. And I wonder what's going to happen here. You know, it's like...

Well, to be a champion, you have to have something to slay, right?

Well, but... Or the other thing is... You know what? Is that I think it's much more the idea of Buckminster Fuller. In other words, the idea is, like, to be critical, you need to have a... You know, you need to have a... You know, a suggestion on a way forward. Right. You know? And I think that's the thing. In other words, it's like either yes, no. And yes, no usually doesn't have a way forward. It's either it's like, I'm right and you're wrong. Or it's like... Or my future is going to be the thing. Or it's like, you know what? What if we're all wrong? You know? Or what if we're all right? You know? And I think the... Kind of like the scientific... You know? Process of the why.

Patrick Lichty

And the why, what, and how. You know? The... You know? And... But you know what? What happens is that sometimes so many... So many of us are just so damn busy. You know? Just trying to keep our heads above water. We don't have time to think about this crap. You know? And that's my job. Right. Right.

Patrick Lichty

So, anyway. Okay. Anyway. I'll shut up. It's all good. Your input's always welcome here.

You know, I know I've said this before, and I apologize. But it's the only way I can make the reference for all of you. I'm probably older than every one of you. And I'm old enough to remember when action painting started or pop art started. And what was useful was it was pretty easy to find it. If you wanted to find out about it, you could see it. It was easy to print in magazines, for example. It was easy to go down to galleries. It very quickly became available via big collectors in private parties and in other museum type shows. Whereas NFTs isn't.

Lee Musgrave

The only thing I can think of is the... The... The Bored Ape thing. I see that a lot every time somebody talks about NFTs or publishes a story. I see that image. But that's the only thing that pops into my mind when anybody says NFT. Or Beeple.

Yeah.

Okay. Well... You know. I probably don't look at much of it as the rest of you do. What I'm saying is that it seems to have limited access to the general public. So, the discussion is... The discussion level is much calmer, much cooler than it was when action painting and pop art came out. There was a lot more active busyness going on, a lot of talk.

Lee Musgrave

And that helped. It helped the understanding process for the general public. And it helped the artist to decide where they were in that field. How they were going to incorporate that or not within their work. And that element doesn't seem to be here very much in NFT. But I hear...

What's the difference?

Most of the discussion is more about money. I hear that conversation a lot as it relates to NFTs. And the investment quality and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. There seems to be the art element of it. Seems to have taken a backseat to all of the other aspects of it. And that bothers

Me a great deal. I think that's intrinsic to the community. Because, I mean, there's one theory about NFTs that... On one hand, NFTs got popular because... In part, because there was a whole community of crypto millionaires and crypto billionaires who weren't able to unload their market cap. Into fiat currency and that sort of thing. They need a place to put their value without crashing their own currency. So the thing is, if they were cashing out on fiat currency, they'd crash the market with having all these billions. That's right. So how do you maintain the valuation of what you have? Yeah. How do you maintain that value without destroying your own value?

Patrick Lichty

And I think what kind of came up partially with Bored Ape and all that sort of thing as part of this was pretty clever. But the thing is that this idea of the circle on the Venn diagram. In other words, like the community. You know, a lot of it is, you know, artists connecting with, you know, with crypto millionaires and that sort of thing and having this certain sort of, you know, transactional relationship and that sort of thing. Myself, I think I'm comfortable now with, you know, probably getting very active on object and possibly selling my work for maybe, you know, as NFTs for anywhere from like $25 to $100 a piece and that sort of thing. And just seeing how things go with that and working in scale, you know, but we'll see, you know, I'm not there yet.

All right. Well, appreciate you guys' input. I know there's a couple other people that wanted to say a few things, but appreciate the discussion so far. Thank you. All right. I know Giovanna, I think, had her hand up.

Yeah, I have a little presentation and also I'd like to share some thought. Still, like people don't know what it is. NFT or people think NFT is a scam. A lot of people may not even remember NFT is a non-fungible token, which means a smart contract. I'm going to share my music NFT right now. This is a really great platform. The app I use that I can actually mem my music so I can start from presentation. Yeah.

Giovanna Sun

Can you see my screen? OK. So this is a mobile app called Our Song that I was verified creators and artists. They are based in Asia, but they back out with a very big like Asian Spotify company. So I used to work for record company and I do a lot of remix. So the idea is like a... Remax, remix. So John Legend, the Academy Award producer is also one of the co-founders.

Giovanna Sun

So the idea is I joined the competition. They always they have a song being like the music source, the MP3, like sub licensing collab where you just purchase one NFT so you can get the artwork. You can also get the MP3 that you do your own remix. So I do my remix and I also I mem my music NFT, which they probably they're most the easiest one that you can mem music NFT. The what you can just use a mobile phone once you're ready and you upload, you download the mobile app, you upload and you can actually just list for sale. I use a couple different app. I use a garage band. I use a garage band. I use a Photoshop. I use a buzz that I use a Premiere Rush.

Giovanna Sun

Most probably if you have a garage band that is a lot of loop and a lot of they have a music library. You can sampling different type of style and you can just a twist, just play around with the music. So I also I create a whole new. Artwork for that recently because we talk about if you can start in a piece. So what can you do? So I also turn NFT into physical artwork.

Giovanna Sun

So this is a most of the day out enough to before, but they are like more like a low resolution like a JPEG, which I think is a really difficult if you want to do like an actual print. So if I want to turn into that, I have. To turn the RGB into CMYK and the color looks completely different. So which means I actually I have to start to do all over again. So there is really a lot of work to do. I twist my arm and I still have I have a muscle weight because I literally look like at least 12 hours per day just to do all these retouch. And also I do all I manipulate with the colors and use my glitch.

Giovanna Sun

So I can't do it for this one. So I like to do it for this one. And I like to do it for this one. And I like to do it for this one. And I like to do it for

This one. And I like to do it for this one. And I like to do it for this one. And I like to do it for this one. And I like to do it for this one. And I like to do it for

This one. And I like to do it for this one.

And I like to do it for

This one. And I like

To do it for this one.

And I like to do it for this one. And I like to do it for this one. So this is a garage and I will use the frequent driver of the assembly and I just play with it. They do have an original song that is a rock and they have a new music level. And this is an animation I did for that. So most probably because I think the greatest concept is that they, because a lot of the DJ and producer these days, they buy all the source files and also buy all type of music that you actually, you can just reuse it. So they call these a remix and remix. And especially for a lot of young musicians, DJ or artists, that you do need to have a lot of material to play with. And the best thing is because the royalty share and everything's easy. So you can add like who earn what percentage. And they think that actually solve the big problem.

Giovanna Sun

It's like a smart contract. It's not only NFT, but you can deal with the very difficult situation and the people they can get this year. So yeah, so that's about the new thing about NFT I like to say, but of course these days this is really not that great. But you can look this up. The other way, like I, I, you know, I not, people really don't know what I'm doing before I make an NFT even I create art, but I cannot see any negative side as an artist or creator. You use the NFT as a part of your, your branding challenge.

Giovanna Sun

Okay. Yeah. Just like you say that.

Thank you, Giovanna. All right. So I'm sorry. I would have been clapping, but I have a cat on one arm. I had to kind of free it. All right. Oh, well, apparently Tommy's doing the clapping for all of us. All right. So the next step we have Corey, I think that's Michael Price's friend. Correct?

Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

So I was hanging out, of course, coming in to give Michael some love because he's an amazing artist. And. Of course I love Michael for making art come alive with him in being involved with Crowdfunded Cures and taking using the ability for art to help fund an impact medicine fund to take unmonopolizable therapies and drugs and take them to market so that way people can pay $2 for a off prescription drug instead of $2000 is clearly a meaningful thing. But the reason why I felt like I had to talk is because my background is I'm in the Web3 means with I'm part owner of crypto world which is the first brick and mortar crypto store we're actually talking about having a live nft art gallery here in the next number of weeks I'm also to started the doi foundation which finds meaningful web3 projects all around the world and then understands kind of their utility their use case etc and basically a number of other projects that all focus around really like how can we change the world with this tech and some of the conversations that started with tommy with being rightfully skeptical as we all should one of the things that we say on our podcast is that whenever we say bring the fud because we have this aversion whenever people say no fud no fear uncertainty and doubt it's the exact exact opposite is you should lean into that and try to understand what is it really what are the use cases what does it really look like and then patrick started talking and then lee you kind of were giving your and perception of not being able to see nfts and I kind of felt after I heard all this was like all right I gotta kind of say some stuff so first off I'm going to hopefully change the mindset about nfts for some of you may not have thought about it like this so first off giovanna hit it spot on whenever she said that nfts are a smart contract so what its uses are almost entirely to the infinite realm of possibilities so I'm going to just kind of throw out some use cases and I'm going to talk about some real world stuff that you're not seeing but is happening that's all based off of this podcast technology so for instance like based off of what I'm just going to reverse order what giovanna was talking about imagine with art or with music if you didn't have to create the entire piece of music but you could create one part of it and then you own that one part forever meaning let's say you created the baseline and you said any artist in the entire world can use my baseline and whenever you grab it you put it into your music and by smart contract automatically with code we don't have to trust each other it automatically pays me the money to do it and I'm going to now could you create?

Cory Feco

What if you could do that with art? What if you can also fractionalize the ownership of things like, let's say your artworks and you make it to where now in a piece of art, that's worth thousands or tens of thousands or a hundred thousands or millions. Well, if you are most of the world, you'll never be able to own that individually. But the moment you fractionalize that with an NFT, you can, and you can do the same thing with real estate. You can do the same, like let's say you and 42,312 other people all owned by a smart contract, a piece of estate that pays back rents.

Cory Feco

And then you get to vote on how that piece of property should be managed, so on and so forth. And the list goes on and on and on and on. But to talk about like, because there's a thousand utilities, you could take any problem that you're talking about, say, hey, Corey, what about this problem? I'll say you can do an NFT with this, this, this, this and this. And this project's already doing it. This project's already talking about it. But to talk about art, because that's what we're all here for.

Cory Feco

I want to kind of change the mindset you've all had for a moment. This last Friday, I was with Tom Bilyeu. He sold Quest Nutrition for over a billion dollars. And he started basically, he wants to create the next Disney and leverage NFT tools in the metaverse. And his, the statement he used, was we are now creating borderless entertainment. So whenever you are, let's say that you sit down at a table, you look at the table, you can see like a whole new world in front of you. Now the world changes in live time based off of the NFTs you hold, the people around you, the NFTs that they hold, and the actions that you take will create new NFTs. So let's say that you go to a race. Let's say that you're at NASCAR, you go to a race, you hold an NFT for a particular driver and their car blows up, or they get into a race, like you get an NFT, you basically program the contract to say, if something happens, then this other thing is created.

Cory Feco

So you have this art that literally evolves based off of the community, the individuals and the experiences, the environment around it changes these NFTs. And based off those NFTs, you can say, okay, what's something fun we can do with that? Well, if you have, let's say a certain NFT, you can get access to certain events, other people can't, or you can get exclusive engagements with the race car driver, or you can get like, maybe some fun swag that people can't get access to. And whatever you can imagine, you just basically program this down and you do it. But what I want to give you a word for is where Tom Bilyeu was saying borderless entertainment. And by the way, that what I was talking about with the coffee table, and being able to like put on a pair of glasses and, you know, look at a in a closet and sift through clothes and wear them, and then visualize you wearing them or somebody else wearing them.

Cory Feco

That's not 20 years from now. That's not even 10 years from now. That's not even five years from now. They're talking about trying to launch that this year, next year, that technology already exists where they can actually layer over a human body, you put on some glasses, you see an image over the light over the top of them. That's the kind of artwork you could create. So I want you to take borderless entertainment and change it to borderless art. Everywhere that you go, the art surrounds you the things that you love the things that inspire you, you can hold those with you and then you and then the world can interact with you and your art and change everything you see. You put on a pair of Apple glasses, you walk down Times Square, and all the walls will change based off the NFTs that you own.

Cory Feco

And also to you look at other people and based off of whether or not you do or don't want to interact with them, they'll interact with you based off the NFT NFTs that they own. So you can look at them and go, Oh, gosh, look, looks like we both share an affinity for roses. Or Oh, you're part of this community. I'm part of that community, too. You can even have to whenever you interact with each other creates all new sets of NFTs. So imagine if art followed you everywhere.

Cory Feco

Because that's where we're going. We're going into the AR world. Where whenever you walk outside, we're going to have a pair of Apple glasses. It's and we're not talking about 20 years from now. Not once again, not 10 years from now, not five years from now, we're talking like years, like it already exists. If you had a lot of money, meaning that's today's technology, it's just not cost effective for everyone yet. So you can walk down the street.

Cory Feco

And your art doesn't have to stay at home on a wall. It's everywhere that you are. It's with everyone that you love. And you get to share this and you get to be immersed in it. And then, in that way, you know, what does that look like? I want my art to interact with me. How beautiful that be? And I want to create art that interacts with other people. And I want that to interact with my communities. And all of that technology exists today. And anything else like you that you kind of have envisioned you go, okay, what if whenever somebody had a piece of my art, you know, it gave them the ability to kind of interact with me during live book signings or to get custom access automatically of a talk of an event I have or whatever you imagine, you can set that up in a smart contract and have it done automatically.

Cory Feco

The list goes on and on and on. But it's one of those things that even though people may not see it, and the words will be different. NFTs are far bigger than I think all but a handful of people truly recognize. So I just had to jump in on that. And yeah, and so if anybody's got any questions, by the way, because living in that space about what real world utilities are, or especially like the crowdfunded cures, because Michael's pretty good at that. But if you're interested in that, I'd love to hear from you. With any chance we could connect with Michael about his Hi trick project? Beautiful art like what that is how it works? How the community engages in it? Why an NFT? What are the gating mechanisms? What even is a gating mechanism for an NFT etc? Let me know you can reach out to Michael I'm sure you can connect us.

Your narrative is very interesting and understand what you're saying. But the thought occurred to me as you spoke when you talked about the interactivity of art and the evolution of art. And its mediation through the smart contract. Dorian Gray had a portrait that was interactive and he had a Faustian smart contract, with the devil. And so it's just something to think about, this interactive portrait, interactive art, evolutionary art, et cetera, reflecting light, things happen and then the picture changes. Dorian Gray's done that already. So Oscar Wilde was one up on us regarding NFTs.

Verneda Lights

So I just wanted to throw that out there.

I like that.

I will say also, as interesting as all of that is, and it is fascinating to me because I am one of those people that, I'm probably one of the few gamers in this community that I've met that's good at every game. But there is a franchise or genre of video game, it's called, in Japan, it's called Isekai, it's another world stories where, you know, the main character is transported to a different world. Initially, it was just video games, sometimes it was fantasy worlds, whatever, but I was one of those people where I was like, I would love to be able to see this to the level and degree of technology that, you know, those games were in reality.

Davonte Bradley

One of my favorite franchises called.hack, the game was called The World. And it had a lot of parallels with things like Second Life and several aspects of what we're seeing right now in the metaverse. And I was like, oh, we're inching to get to that point. But as interesting as that is, and as fun as I think that would be to see that manifest in different ways, I can't also help but think about the upshots of, sure, there are all of these positive things that can come from this, sure. But what other drawbacks are we going to see?

Davonte Bradley

And I think about what the internet has kind of done collectively to the world's attention span. It's dropped significantly because of how we're seeing it. How we consume information via the internet. And to the point where,

I wouldn't say, gosh, what was it?

I can't remember the actual numbers right now. And I can't pull it off the top of my head. But I know it's decreased noticeably that when it comes to even people with wanting to or trying to engage with our legal system or looking at our laws and stuff like that, they literally don't have the attention span to get through pages of these documents because it's like, oh, this is too much. I'm just going to move on to the next thing or look for somebody to summarize it for me.

Davonte Bradley

And we're losing certain things. And I think it can't be discounted what we could potentially lose by moving forward with this. Not saying that it's all going to be bad. I'm just saying it definitely does need, to be thought about with a bit more care. And I want to say with most pieces of technology, I'm not sure there is enough time or care given to upshots that could go in the opposite way or unintended side effects of this thing.

Yeah, I would have to agree with that, Davo. So the podcast that I have, we've spent already, I don't know, since it's been on Spotify, probably 150 hours going back and forth. And there's utopian vision. But there's also dystopian vision. Right. So you kind of go, okay, well, what if classism now can't escape anywhere? Like, based off of what you do or don't have, as far as like, you go into Fortnite and maybe you've got the custom skin and that's cool. But what if you go out into the world and now everybody's looking at you without your custom skin? And maybe what does that mean to whether or not you can get a job or whether or not you can get a friend or whether you create all these basically mechanisms to gate where everybody's at to kind of separate out the haves from the have-nots, even in a digital, like, like imaginary realm.

Cory Feco

And then you use that from control mechanisms with like CBDCs to control like who's got a certain NFT, meaning like the accepted class or the accepted people, the government can look at you and classify you as the accepted one. And then they could also then determine whether or not you should be accepted into certain environments, situations, whether or not you should get funds. So one of the things with NFTs is there's what they call an NTT, which is a non-transferable token. It's something that you get whenever you, it's basically something, an identifier about you. You can't transfer. You can't sell it. So for instance, it's used a lot in zero proof technology. Like let's say one of the projects I'm a part of that I co-founded is all about creating a decentralized governance because there's no global accepted laws for property rights or contract interactions.

Cory Feco

And since there's DAOs and Web3 and things like that, you go, how do you create dispute resolutions outside of the legal system where there isn't a single governance, but you also do that in a way that's fair and equitable? Well, you need third-party intermediaries. You need third-party intermediaries that are unknown because they can be, at that point in time, you could pull them in and you could bribe them, if you will, especially whenever it comes to like tens or millions or hundreds of hundreds of millions of dollars. That said, you create an NTT that allows me to say, okay, I know You know that this person is a lawyer. You know that this person has a high rating, but you don't know whether or not they're a man or a woman. You don't know how old they are. You don't know what country they're from.

Cory Feco

You don't need to know those things because they aren't relevant. It's like if you were gonna get a loan, you wouldn't need to know their social security number, just whether or not they were creditworthy. Well, these NTTs, they sound great in theory. Some projects have used them for proof of helpfulness. Like if you do something good, they'll give you an NTT as a way to kind of like... For the community. And a lot of times they're attached with art because it's beautiful to have these NTTs and you have them in your wallet and it's like, oh, I did a good thing. And that'll get you in place other places. But then you also go, okay, what about whenever governments start doing that stuff? They have an NTT that says, okay, this is the kind of person that doesn't pay their taxes or they're the kind of person that has a felony.

Cory Feco

And then you kind of go, well, is that fair to say whether or not somebody has a felony? Because it starts with something like that. It starts with something where everybody wants to know, okay, is this person on the child sex offender list? I put my Apple AR glasses on. I want to see everyone in front of me and be able to visualize them. And then you go, well, where does that stop? So to that point, yeah, we could go on and on about the dystopian stuff. But from an art perspective, I do think it's pretty cool though, to be able to do generative art and a lot of these other things and be able to kind of live interactive environment, but yeah, plenty of art. Yeah.

I don't think it's dystopian or utopian or dystopian. I mean, Neil Stevenson pretty much wrote most of this stuff in 1995 and snow crash. I mean, 95, about 95% of everything that we're talking about here is pretty much in that blueprint. You know, I mean, it's just there. You know, and so I think entities are a good thing. You know, I mean, I think that's, you know, I think the idea of being able to verify one's identity in certain ways is, I think necessary in this case. And, you know, but you know, it's, it's just you know, this, this, this idea of you know, it's I think the, the notion of, of having lived in, in Asia and I mean, not in East Asia, but I mean, West Asian Arabia and gone out into, you know, the caucuses in central Asia and that sort of thing, you know, the notion of access to things like always on AR technology and the infrastructure is involved in that sort of thing.

Patrick Lichty

You know, I mean, I'd say that's 20 years out in max minimum. And the thing is, is that, you know, so what's, so what's going on here is, is that what I see the, the vision, which is, you know, it's, it's a very interesting vision, but the one thing is, is that, you know, when, when we look at this, you know, we have to think about it, you know, as, as if we think about it as part of a global, global, global financial infrastructure, you know, because we are talking about money most of the time with this, you know, so how do we wind up having this as a, as, as a globally integrate, integrated, integrated, you know, you know, socioeconomic, cultural, cultural structure that is accessible in Bangladesh.

Patrick Lichty

You know, and so it's like, you know, I mean, are you going to be interested in, in, in, in the fish farmer in Bangladesh? You know, and, but the thing is, is that, I mean, for this to really become the thing, then, you know, is that we need to think about how this has, you know, global adoption,

You know, over Fiat.

You know, as, as many different directions as this discussion can go, unfortunately, we, we don't have a whole lot more time to do it.

Yeah.

Well, at least not, not for our like formal recording time. Cause we're, we are right at 7.02. And I will say if you are willing to stick around and, you know, we always do a discussion after our main recording time. So these conversations can definitely continue. And to that point, but I think so far, discussion for today has been pretty great. I'll say as, as most of our discussions are always a lot of input, always a lot of back and forth. Well, maybe not back and forth, but back and forth. So I'm just going to say the same thing. And I will say I'm not an expert in this in this particular area, but I'm not it's not the only thing I'm just going to say. And I'm not on the same page that you are. And I'm not on the same page that you are. And I'm not on the same page that you are. And I'm not on the same page that you are.

Davonte Bradley

And I'm not on the same page that you are. And I'm not on the same page that you are. Is literally a breath of fresh air where we can share ideas, you know, freely and openly without, you know, too much friction going on.

Yeah. So to that point, sorry to drop. And I'm going to hand over there, Patrick, you're making a great point. And then my internet went out. So your point was that Asia is 20 years out. Apparently I'm 20 years out because I can't even hold a stable internet connection. There you go.

That's how it is. Anyway, folks, I think we can go ahead and wrap things up here and at least for the formal part of our recording session. Thank you so much for coming and joining in, listening in, contributing to this discussion that we have. It has been my pleasure. And I think that's about it. Unless anyone has, else has anything to say before we sign off.

Yeah, I think I'd just like to thank you Davo for, you know, your service in, in moderating and, you know, keeping this group sort of, you know, all interacting in a civil way. You know, I feel like it just makes me really happy to see these familiar faces, you know, time in and time out in these, in these salons where, you know, you go on Twitter, you go into these Twitter spaces and, and I've been, you know, definitely spending some time there lately since the whole NFT thing is, has happened. And you know, there's something to be said for actually like seeing familiar faces and getting to know people's body of work, their aesthetic, their philosophy, you know, and I feel like that aspect of what expressionism is, is, is becoming, you know, really sort of primary, you know, in a way to me personally, like people can define it however they want, you know, but in the end, I mean, really when I've sort of proposed the idea to Helen Harrison, she was like, well, maybe try to get an artist group together by organizing a show and see who sticks around, you know what I mean?

Colin Goldberg

And that's, you know, really in the end, you know, what, what it ends up sort of becoming is, is, is, is, you know, it's really interesting to look back at some of the old, you know, collab shows and, you know, even NFT now, which, which and, and Spalter curated, I look back on that show and, you know, there was some, I mean, you know, Tyler Hobbs was in that show who created Fidenza, you know what I mean? I didn't know who he was back then. I was like, all right, you know, and I started getting inquiries about that piece later on.

Colin Goldberg

And, you know, it's, it's just interesting because like Patrick was saying with the idea of Venn diagrams, like all these different communities overlap in so many different ways. And, you know, I think it's, it's really, you know, it's, it's always interesting and satisfying to have this sort of discourse. So, you know, appreciate all you guys and definitely Davo. It's good to have you back. So with

That, I'm going to turn

My camera off and see if I can throw a towel over it and get it outside because she does. She's not doing her job. Apparently, but anyhow, without further ado, I think we're at time. So I'm going to stop recording. In three, two, one. And. Stop.