Salon 54 // Open Studios

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome everyone to our Techspressionists and virtual salon number 54. So it's been going for 54 weeks now, or give or take some, because I think we might have actually missed a couple of them. Maybe, but that's beside the point. But, yes, I am your moderator this evening. I'm Davonte Bradley. It's been a while since I've been around, so glad to be back. There's some stuff that happened or was going on with me, which I had to step away from, but I'm back now, so it's all good, I think.

Davonte Bradley

In any case, today is going to be kind of an open mic slash open studio salon for us. So if you're unfamiliar with how things work or you're new here, pretty much this format is if you will go five or so minutes between each participant, you'll raise your hand. First participant will go, share what they need to share, and then we'll move on to the next person, so on and so forth, until we get hopefully everyone that needs to share.

Davonte Bradley

Other than that, stay friendly and nice. All right, so we're going to kick things off, I think, with Colin, who's going to share something to start, kind of about the movement, and then we'll go from there.

All right, awesome. Thanks, Davo. So yeah, and welcome back. I'm glad you're back in action as a moderator, and certainly we welcome you back to moderate whenever you want. And we've also been doing rotating moderation, where if people have an idea for a topic-based salon, and they want to moderate and or curate in artists or kind of take a lead, I invite anyone that wants to do so. It just keeps things fresh and interesting. So I also just wanted to ask if you're not sharing, if you could mute yourselves. That just keeps everything running smoothly. And I wanted to just open it up with a few minutes of a recording that I made last week, which was our first roundtable discussion.

Colin Goldberg

And it was myself as moderator, and the participants were Christiane Paul, who's the moderator, and I'm the moderator. And I'm the digital art curator at the Whitney Museum of American Art, and Helen Harrison, who's the director of the Pollock-Krasner Center, Pollock-Krasner House and Study Center. And the topic was about Techspressionism. So I just wanted to share a couple minutes of that segment, which is on the YouTube channel. And we now have our own short URL there, youtube.com slash Techspressionism. So I'm just going to kick it off with this recording here.

So if you're interested in listening to this talk, please feel free to reach out to me. And I'll be happy to answer any questions that you may have.

And I'll be happy to answer any questions that you may have.

Would either one of you have any specific questions for each other or for myself on the topic of Techspressionism to expand our dialogue? And then I figure we can just sort of let the conversation develop organically from there.

Well, I think Christiane really hit on a crucial point. Which is where are the boundaries? Should there be boundaries? Is there some way of determining how much subjectivity is injected into the ultimate image or the ultimate work of art, whether or not the technology is contributing to that? I mean, you could think of certain, well, like, for example, in your exhibition, Colin, you had printmakers.

Helen A. Harrison

Printmakers. You had simulators. The kind of thinking is a technology. It's not a digital technology, but it could be. But the kind of technology that was, I guess, primarily the foregrounded in the show was digital technology. And some of it animated as well. In fact, in your fly-through, you showed Nina Yankowitz's two-panel animation. And you could only do that digitally. That there's no other way. But could she have achieved the same kind of image result? You know, that's the only way. Using a different technology? That's also another question. Is this technologically specific, or can it be translated into other media?

Yeah, I think you raise a lot of great questions, Helen, and that was precisely what I was trying to get to. So first of all, just reiterating your important point, of course, all art is technological, ultimately. Paint is a technology, photography, of course, printing. So artists have used technologies for centuries, but then those technologies also have very different qualities, obviously. One thing I like about expressionism is that as a term, it could also be used as a term of expressionism. Artists since 500 years ago could also transcend boundaries.

Christiane Paul

In terms of the question of whether we need to clearly delineate things, I'm all for openness. And I think expressionism already fulfils an important function if there are artists aligning themselves with that term and finding a platform to discuss issues relevant to their work. That's always... Yeah. I think... Yes. A function that makes a term valuable. In terms of digital art curation, I also need to make a set of other distinctions.

Christiane Paul

I mean, paint, of course, is a medium, painting is a medium that has so many different genres, but I think digital technology has really increased the range of forms. If you think about virtual reality, augmented reality, software art, massive installations, networked or not. So those are all very, very different manifestations.

Christiane Paul

So I think there's more variety within the digital and in order to discuss its aesthetics art historically, I think I need to introduce more distinctions into that umbrella of Techspressionism.

Alright, so that's just the clip I wanted to share with you guys because I thought that captured a really nice moment there of these two curators interacting and providing some thoughtful discussion on what we're all engaged in here. So with that, I'm going to hand the mic back to Davo to moderate and to all you guys to open your studios up.

Alright, sounds like a plan. And thank you, Colin, for sharing that. Thank you, Colin. And I think one of the things that we more or less can agree on though, I can't speak for everyone, but I think we can agree on this that the distinction that Christian was getting at is very important for us because now a lot of us are used to the term or used to hearing the term digital art. But what does that mean? And what does that encompass exactly? Right? It's kind of a huge umbrella of Techspressionism. So I think that's one of the things that we need to focus on is the umbrella term. And that's where, you know, things get kind of mixed up because you introduce yourself to, you know, just a person that's unfamiliar with anything that's, you know, any kind of fine art or art that's created digitally.

Davonte Bradley

And you say, oh, you're a digital artist, people might jump to thinking, oh, you're a graphic designer, or you make commercial art for video games. And it's really a huge umbrella that can mean a whole bunch of different things. So the term Techspressionism is a huge umbrella. And I think that's where we need to focus on. And I think that's also for your question, like, it's for me, and I think that's what I'm most excited about. So I'm going to take a question that you've been thinking about. And I'm going to take a question that you've been thinking about. And I'm going to take a question that you've been thinking about. And I'm going to take a question that you've been thinking about. And I'm going to take a question that you've been thinking about. And I'm going to take a question that you've been thinking about.

Davonte Bradley

And I'm going to take a question that you've been thinking about. And I'm going to take a question that you've been thinking about. And I'm going to take a question that you've been thinking about. And I'm going to take a question that you've been thinking about. And I'm going to take a question I'm not like I have similarities with this thing but I am this distinct entity or I'm just a distinct individual or just a distinct kind of artist right so it does that kind of can we agree that's a thing or no yes maybe I see head nodding so okay cool all right that being said on to you Michael

Thanks Davo and yes it is wonderful to have you back

Oh and I just wanted to let you guys know so I don't it's not disturbing so I'll as each new artist comes in I'm going to start a five minute timer when you have one minute left I'll just say one minute to let you know that it's time to start wrapping stuff up and that should give us plenty of time for you know conversation once everyone that wants to share has done so sorry go ahead no problem all

Right okay so I have

Been recently working on some new artwork that is primarily focused on a book that I'm working on and I kind of talked a very small bit about that when we had the physics and art talk a few weeks ago a month ago now and so this is a book that I'm working on that is going to talk about the universe and my sense of what reality is and it's based on modern physics a lot of cutting edge neuroscience and my thoughts on spirituality and this first image is a an expression of the universe beginning in the book I'm going to be talking about I use the Mobius strip as a symbol.

Michael Pierre Price

And in this image here, that Mobius strip is created from the Enso and the Yeroboros. And they come together to form the Mobius strip. So there's the sense of enlightenment, the sense of balance and harmony, along with the teaching about the snake eating its tail and life and death and the generative part of creation.

Michael Pierre Price

So these next images are just more examples of this. And in my story, part of the story. Is that the universe is cyclic and never ending, no beginning, no end. And with each new start of the universe of the next cycle, this mysterious black bird comes back into being and is the witness for the universe. And that's what this image is here. And so the symbology of the bird. For us here as human beings on the earth is oftentimes been connected with shamanic traditions and other traditions where the bird is getting away from gravity and being able to fly and have this sense of movement. And that's what these images are. These images are from the metaphysical element or realm of the universe that ties in with the physical and connects us into a sense of life. And then the last set of images that I want to show are my imaginings of our ancestors tens of thousands of years ago, thousands of years ago, hundreds of thousands of years ago, looking at what the bird spirit or the bird represents.

Michael Pierre Price

And these last images for me are my ode to the bird gods. So I'm just going to stop there. And then I'm going to cycle through these.

So this was a whole level up from what we were attempting to do.

One minute.

And then I'm going to go back to the next slide. All right.

Thank you. Thank you, Michael.

I just wanted to add real quick. Sorry, Davo, to jump in. But. Yeah. If you want to, when you start, introduce yourself and let people know where you're zooming in from, you know, you're welcome to. Certainly not mandatory, but, you know, just putting that out there.

All right.

Well, I'm still in hot Phoenix.

So we're in the mid 90s today. So, yeah. Oh, joy. That's totally fall weather, right?

All right. And I also before I move on, if I don't say this, it's going to bother me. But because your art was centered around a bird or a bird, like the birds, the word, right? Yep. I had to. I couldn't help it. I'm sorry.

You're Papa. Who? My mom.

All right. Thank you, Michael. All right. Next up. Miss Lights.

How are you doing?

All right. Thank you.

Yes.

My name is Renee the lights and I'm zooming in from Port Royal, South Carolina, the heart of the South Carolina Lowcountry. And I traditionally do digital and traditional fine art. And my most recent projects have involved the use of digital portraiture. But I have recently ventured. Into AI usage for the creation of my artwork. And I'm going to share with you one of my latest projects. And it's titled My Sacred Chinese Muse. And it has that title because I have a muse. And my muse is a Chinese man.

Verneda Lights

And. The relationship is very complex and mostly metaphysical. And the AI project was an attempt to. Obtain insight as to the global memory of where the muse comes from and the nature of the muse artist relationship. So let me share my screen. Okay. Here we have the start here. I use night cafe. In order to get an image of the muse. And I wanted to get something that was more in line with what I was seeing in my own mind. And the system gave me an older. You know, Chinese male. And then again.

Verneda Lights

Female. And it took a lot to. Get the eyes right. Okay. Gave me everything but. A Chinese face. But with time I was able to coach the system to work for me. Okay. This is an abstract. Which shows. The connections. The different connections between. The artist and their inspirational source. They represent many pathways. To inspiration here. And I, I like the colors. I was very pleased with that.

Verneda Lights

And this is an image. One of several that it gave me as to where the muse. Could have come from. So. I thought it was. Pleasing to look at. And calming. To behold. And this is. The. Dance of life. Or electric. She. Which shows. You know, myself juxtaposed with the news. And they dance. And I guess the act of. Artistic inspiration. Yes.

Verneda Lights

Very much reflected. In dance. As a metaphor. And this is more the. Picture of. My muse. As I see him. As he is biologically. And as he is metaphysically. So those are just. A few. Of my. Images that I've gotten from my sacred Chinese muse. Series. And I'm done.

Thank you very much. And you said this was based off of a real person, but, you know, yes.

Okay.

And how'd you come to meet them?

I met. My muse when I was. A student at the university of Pennsylvania school of medicine.

Okay.

And he was a house officer. You know, resident. In psychiatry. At the university of Pennsylvania hospital. And so we've known each other for 45 years.

That's a lot of history.

Yeah. But we're just now in the middle of the pandemic. We're not really getting to know. The house and the wise and the wherefores of why we really met in the first place. I think it's being reflected in what's playing out now. And we are culturally very different. I'm Gala. And he is, you know, Chinese. Right. How do these. Different cultural forces interact and create art, inspire art. And so I've been exploring that. And the AI has been very useful. I believe.

Interesting. Thank you so much. You're welcome. All right. I don't know if there's anybody else that wants to go. Oh, Lucy. There we go.

Sure.

I'll go.

I think I'll go after you because it's been a while and I've, I have been doing stuff since I've been away, but nobody would really know because I don't really post that much. But I'll go after you. All right. Thank

You. So I just got back from this weekend. From dumb fest west. Which is. The. Dome. Festival dome film festival. In Anaheim. At the coast. Coast college planetarium. Where it was located. So it's, you know, LA area. And three days of dome films. And animations and some. Documentaries and some children's films and some.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

You know, experiment, lots of experimental art, lots of short format, meaning less than 10 minutes, six minutes, five minutes. Three minutes. And. My piece showed. Which was really exciting because it was the first time I'd actually seen my piece in a real dome. I've been developing it. Well, you know, a while.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

And, you know, developed it as a VR piece. So. You know, So as you know, immersive as VR and then testing it in a VR dome. I created a dome in VR map. My fisheye format. Piece to this dome. So I can actually test it in the dome. Test the timing and so on. But every, all my testing. Has been in VR and in my own VR dome. So it was really different too. Well, not so different. That is really interesting. To see it actually in a real dome and with an audience. Oh my God. You know. An audience. So that was different. And fun.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

And some interesting observations. I mean. First of all, the, the whole event was just beautifully organized. Oh my goodness. The organizer Ryan Moore just very responsive all the, all the time, like leading up to it. And then beautifully moderated. And, and the community is wonderful and very friendly. And so it was. A really wonderful, interesting, fun experience.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

The dome at, at this particular location. Many domes are like planetarium style where the dome actually starts about six or eight feet up and it's over your head. And it's seated. So the, so it's audience seating. The dome is on a tilt. The seating is on a slope. Slight slope and your chairs tilt back. So you can be looking up. So you're looking up at the dome.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

Another dome. My piece also is going to be playing at the Plymouth dome. In the UK. Early, early November. And that dome is not seated. And, and the dome. Goes all the way down to the ground. It's actually a 210 degree dome. With a slight curve around at the bottom. Whereas many planetariums are 180 domes. So it's an exact half sphere. And I'm going to share my, share my screen. Just momentarily.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

Okay. So this is an example of a seated dome. And I'm going to show you a little bit of the dome. This, this kind of thing. So, so you, you know, sit, sit back and look up. And. This is. This is the Plymouth market hall dome. Where you can see it's. No seats. And, and so on. And then I'm going to momentarily show, show the piece that I was showing. And I'm not going to show all of it because I've, I've shown it to you before.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

But just, just a little bit.

So.

So that's, that's the kind of sensation as you're moving into it. And I really developed it in VR and in VR dome that goes all the way down to the ground. With the intention that it's very immersive and that you can stand up and turn around and see it from behind. That you actually need to turn around. To see what's going on behind you. Or you can enjoy standing and looking, looking at it in, in, in different directions.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

And it was an interesting. It was interesting to see that in this particular dome format where you're sitting back and the dome is right above you and you can almost see all of it. So it wasn't as immersive. It was still, you know, interesting as definitely, you know, a very different experience from what I've experienced in VR. But it was really interesting to see what it was like from a, you know, rectangular movie, movie screen. Certainly immersive.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

Thank you. But not the full encompassing types of immersion that I've been testing with it. So I'm really interested to see how the experiences is different in, in the Plymouth. In the Plymouth dome which goes all the way down to the ground and you can stand and walk around and turn around to see what. What the scene is like as it disappears. So it's really interesting to see how it appears behind you compared to as you're moving, moving into it.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

Because the work that I do and what most excited about is to create pieces that are immersive I really want to place the viewer inside of these environments and they're all environments of our environment. The processes and flows of our natural lands and I want to place the viewer in it. So that is an important aspect for me.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

So this is my, my very first dome experience the first experiment of creating for this format. It was amazing to see so many other pieces and types of works including documentary including 360 live, including artful, all of everything, and everybody really creating for this format, which is so different from what I've seen in the Plymouth. But it was also something very different to create for a format all around a sphere, compared to a rectangular video where you have a clear behind the camera.

Lucy Boyd-Wilson

So this was this was my recent experience at dome fest west and it was fabulous and interesting and informative. Thank you.

Thank you Lucy that sounds amazing. Happy that you guys had time to chat with us. Actually have that experience yeah

Me too now

I'm sitting here trying to imagine what like some of our other artists or even my own art would look like in that kind of format just all over

It's a different way to create yeah

All right well thank you for that and I guess I can go ahead and go I actually just did something I got an app that allowed me to do this so I'm hoping it's going to work the way I want it to so I'm oh I'm Davo by the way based out of Richmond Virginia kind of been around here for two years now and my work is mostly in digital paintings and drawings and here recently I've been experimenting with I've been experimenting with experimenting in oh hold on let me lower my moderating stuff I've been experimenting with procreate because I got an iPad and you're actually seeing my iPad because I figured out how to actually cast that to my PC so one of the things that I like to do whenever I pick up a new piece of technology a new piece of software to use which is exactly how I created the current style that a lot of you might know me for is I like to play around I'll open up a new a new piece of software or a new page new layer and just start playing around with the brushes and see what feels right so to speak and originally I was trying to recreate the kind of feel or aesthetic of what I would do in the software that I use on my PC called Krita but procreate doesn't necessarily have the same kind of brushes that Krita does and the one particular that is kind of like the cornerstone of my style in Krita I can't use that in procreate and I've tried to recreate it but it doesn't work but a lot of the stuff that here is at the bottom like this was me trying to recreate some of that feeling at least and then I went into experimenting with some of like the morphing slash like liquid movement transforming tools so there was a period of time where I was creating kind of similar to almost like paint pores but they were mostly finger painting with stuff warped and pulled and twirled around and then just random options on this one's my favorite actually I love this one and then as time went on I kind of settled into the fact that procreate was its own thing and I should try and just lean into what procreate has to offer and see if I could make you know something different or new with that and this is another one of the poor slash transforming things and I didn't really start to get heavily into that until probably maybe about two months or so ago because I did a lot with just trying to find something that worked with procreate that I was happy with that felt like me still and around let me see I guess it was probably around here this section which is the last section which is the last section that I've been working on off and on for again like I said like two months going back to the black and white stuff because that's how I initially started to play with Krita and manipulating radial cement radial symmetrical drawings in fun interesting ways and I ended up creating drawings that were they felt right to me and I ended up creating drawings that were they felt right to me but yeah so some of you may have seen some of these I posted a few of these on Instagram on my Facebook page and then I started leaning even more to that and so now we have things like this which is kind of an extension of everything that I was doing before on procreate with the finger painting the transforming with the liquid tool on the finger painting the transforming with the liquid tool on the finger painting the transforming and it's created some very interesting effects that I've I fall in love with so I think that's probably what I'm going to stick with in procreate one man yeah so it's been a fun time I treating procreate very differently than I treat Krita but still kind of employing some of the same techniques I'll use in Krita but yeah that's about it that's what I've kind of been up to there's a lot of work to do but I'm going to keep going and I'll see you guys in the next video.

Davonte Bradley

I'm going to keep going and I'll see you guys in the next video. I'm going to keep going and I'll see you guys in the next video. I've also done little things like this on the side just because yeah but there we go that's what I've been up to and I will stop sharing

Yay awesome yeah I love the black and white pieces thank

You yeah apparently that's what I tend to do really well with

Yeah I like those too they're great

All right well also if anyone wanted to I'll go ahead and drop this the app that I'm using to be able to cast my iPad directly to my pc it is an app called I think it's aircast I think it's not the airplay cast it is a paid app for its premium features like twenty dollars for a lifetime use but it has a lot of features that I think people could use especially if they want to live stream their procreate stuff because that's not necessarily easy to do string stuff directly from your iPad to anywhere else it's not all that easy but this makes that a lot easier so yeah there's that.

Davonte Bradley

Yeah so anyone else I don't see any other hands up from what I can see unless my page is not performing the way I wanted to let me see another hands up anybody anybody at all or I could start picking people up because it's been a while since I've seen people randomly. Lee, Lee Day.

Lee Day- I could show something that I've been working on. So I've been, let's see, we do share screen here, and find the right screen somewhere. There we go. So I've, I've finally been able to get been able to travel again. And most of my work is travel based. Can what are you seeing on the screen? Can you see the image in the middle there?

No.

Lee Day- doesn't seem to be sharing yet. Might want to try to reshare it. Okay. About that.

Lee Day- There we go. Yep. And hopefully just does that have the panels on the side too?

Lee Day- Yeah.

Maybe that's better. I'm not sure if that's better or not. I can't see it. But in any event, so I have this generative work that I do, I shoot out of train windows using the iPhone panorama function as a scanner, I attach it to the train windows. And I've been doing that for a long time. And I have a lot of these, Lee Day- these square images mostly from Japan. And so I've been trying to push the process a little bit farther. And I wanted to try and get images that included people and we're a little bit closer. Most of the work that I've been doing has been pretty far away. And so I was in, in Europe this summer, my wife was installing a piece in Basel and writing the, the, the Strassenbahn, the trans there. And so that's what this work is. And it's sort of hard to get the people to in, in these images, their exposure issues with, and it tends to blur.

Lee Day

And it's just the start of that, that project, that process of trying to get these much closer kinds of images. And then there's some other stuff. And then I was also trying to, again, look for other types of work that's since to move on from, sorry, from the Japanese work. And this is Chicago. So I spent about four days shooting in Chicago, writing the L train, elevated trains.

Lee Day

These, you can see are a lot farther away. They tend to be much more organized and, and which formalist in their, in their compositions compared to the stuff coming from Japan, which has a lot more differences in depths and is a lot more active, a lot more exciting. But that's what I've been working on recently. And it has, has a long way to go.

Thank you so much for that. Thank you. I still want to be able, you know, my wife and I, we actually have been wanting to get to Japan for about five years now, actually. And it just things come back to me. And we just keep coming up and we haven't been able to get there, but soon.

Well, for the last two and a half years, you haven't been allowed to go, but as of yesterday, they are allowing foreign tourists to go in again. Nice. I need to get my passport then. Sorry?

I need to get my passport then. Oh, well, yeah. Yeah, that was really great. All right. Now we have Max. Max, are you ready? Yes, I am.

All right. Go ahead. You have the floor. Okay. So I've been involved with different kinds of expressions and communication for my whole life. In the last year, I focused completely on being a digital artist. I use a lot of my time. I use really different ways to express myself. So I use AI. I use digital drawing.

Max Dalí / Kamilla Kulova

I use photography. I use colleges. I use, I record sounds from nature. I use glitch art. I use everything that I find. That I found. I find that it's possible to be added. I add because I'm really creative and I always had a lot of stuff to say to the world and that involve social issues. I've always been an activist of LGBTQI movement.

Max Dalí / Kamilla Kulova

And so. I'm. I never stop and I continue creating. Maybe too much. But let me show you some something of my words. That my first two collections started as an elaboration of a single picture. Screen. Sorry. So we start now. Okay. Sorry. Okay. Okay. Sorry. Because before was a file and now I want to share my. Okay. Perfect.

So my first question. I think we had a connection issue.

Yeah. He, I think he disconnected. That's unfortunate. Hopefully he'll be back in the next couple of seconds. Happens. I think, I think you lost your connection. Max.

The moment I want to share. Well, well, I want, I'm going sharing a single files. I think that the shared screen is a, is too, too heavy for my connection.

Maybe. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. That's what I'm blabbering. Was about a bird. I saw a bird in the first presenter. And it's a typical bird of Brazil. It's 15 years that I'm living in Brazil. And I wanted to use the Brazilian culture to, oh my gosh, to... The traditional Brazilian culture, mixing and facing the new world, the world free and things like that. So this characteristic bird is a Bentevi and is known as the one that brings the novelties during the early morning.

Max Dalí / Kamilla Kulova

But is at the same time a symbol of tradition. So I chose this bird. And I have done a really different elaboration on this picture of the bird. To tell a story. Every picture here is a different story. There is a road story that is a Bentevi that tells this story and talks with the public. And is the meeting between this tradition and the world changing and the craziness of web 3.

Max Dalí / Kamilla Kulova

So this was my first collection. Anyway, sorry. Now I'm going to have an exposition. This Saturday. And it is in a gay beach club. So I'm going to have an exposition. I'm going to present artworks that are related with the LGBT world. And so there are creations like that.

One minute.

All right, let me show. It is appearing. You see a picture?

The picture that we're seeing right now is a bird with a white head and yellow belly. So I'm not sure if you want to switch to something else, but that's what we're seeing right now.

It's not a male, an angel, no?

No, it's not.

Oh my gosh.

It's okay. Technical difficulties happen. Is there a way for people to be able to see your work? Outside of this? Like, do you have an Instagram or anything like that?

I posted a link into the chat.

Okay. All right. Yes, thanks, Colin. I'm really sorry. Anyway. I'm struggling with another mobile phone, but I have a lot of stuff to say. And I'm really productive. I've already done something like 20. I've done like three different collections. So go there and if you want to know me better, go there and check it out because I'm not able to show them rightly in this moment. Okay.

Well, thank you so much, Max.

Yes, thanks, Max. And Max is one of the founding artists of the Brazilian node, an expressionist artist. So I'm happy to see you here. And it's great to get some people from outside of the US.

Thanks, Max.

Really, thanks, Colin. And Saturday will be my first exposition. So wish me luck. Good luck. Thanks.

All right. Now, do we have any more brave souls that wish to share? Or not so brave souls? No. I could do. I could do this like school and just start calling on people. Tommy. Or let's see who else is in here today. Actually, a couple of unfamiliar faces or names in here. Which I don't want to put those people on the spot because that might make them uncomfortable. But you other people that know me, I can make you uncomfortable. That's okay.

Okay.

Let's see. Hey, Davo. Can I ask Vernada a question? Yeah, sure. So Vernada, good

To

See you again, my friend. And so how did your Chinese fellow become your muse? My muse. How did you know? You know what? If it's a story you don't mind telling a little bit about?

Well, it was through a series of intuitions where we shared common insights and inspirations. And it's very complicated. And my best way of describing it is as a quantum scientist. So I don't know what you're trying to say. So I'm just going to say you're the person that was at the event. And I'm just going to say you're the person that was at the event. And I'm just going to say you're the person that was at the event. And I'm just going to say you're the person that was at the event. And I'm just going to say you're the person that was at the event. And I'm just going to say you're the person that was at the event. And I'm just going to say you're the person that was at the event.

Verneda Lights

And I'm just going to say you're the person that was at the event. And I'm just going to say you're the person that was at the event. And I'm just going to say you're the person that was at the event. In space or something like that, that we're in, you know. But I don't understand it. And he said, well, you know, there's muses.

Verneda Lights

And I said, muses? Wow, that's an interesting thought. And then I started going through the different insights and inspirations that I've been having, the visions, the artistic visions that I had started to experience. And it fit the criteria for muses. I researched it. But the muses in antiquity, because you associate it with Greek culture, you know. But come to find out, the nine muses were recruited by the Egyptian god Osiris. So the muses have an African origin, okay. And I said, okay, now I can start to understand a little bit. And then I found out that muses are... Are associated with springs and water, you know. And as places where people would go to encounter the muses.

Verneda Lights

And water played a very large part in my artistic visionings of our friendship and the things that I saw about life in general based on the discoveries of that friendship. So I said, you know, I'm going to start to understand. And I said, you know what, this thing is starting to make sense, this muse thing. And then once I had a context for it, everything else just sort of fell in place. It made sense. And then with the AI, I said, you know what, I'm only going to get so far trying to imagine this world that I've encountered.

Verneda Lights

And maybe AI can help me because AI has a database that's many, many millions of times, many, many times greater than what I have. So if ever there is a place where I could get collective, collective unconsciousness or the collective insight into things in the muse, in the vein of muses and beyond, it would be from that. Let's see. So I, you know, started playing around, playing around. And it was very frustrating at first because the software did not rent, could not render a Chinese space. At least it wasn't. It would not initially connect with that cultural visage. Right. And so I did look for geographical locations.

Verneda Lights

And I said, OK, where did it come from? Let me see if I can find out. And then I got this series of images, you know, and they all had water. OK. And this is before I knew about this show enough muse knowledge. And then I got the faces. But they were the older faces and the archetypal, you know, faces. And then after lots of wrangling with the machine, with the ghost in the machine, so to speak, I got something that represents him, you know, and that let me know that, well, AI is not an oracle or anything like that. You know, don't get me wrong. But if you didn't know better, you might think so.

Is that the Oracle of Delphi? It's the Oracle of OpenAI? Yeah.

I call it the ghost in the machine. And I think that everybody has a different vibe with AI. And I think the vibe that I have is somehow unique to me, you know, and the cubist figures that they rendered for the Dance of Life image was something that was very modern and very, very reflective of the friendship and telling in a lot of ways. So it's been incredible. So my muse knows he's a muse.

Verneda Lights

That's been quite a delight. Thank you, Judy. We got to talk about this one day, Michael.

Yeah, we do. Yeah, because I remember when we did the art and physics, you had asked about quantum entanglement. So yeah, I definitely, we'll have to Zoom together sometime.

Yes, yes. You talked about people think that, you know, it's magic. It's not? And they accept it. Yeah. You know, I could see how they would think it is magic.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, because I, for a minute, I thought it was, you know, in that realm.

Yeah, yeah.

And I said, no, no, no, no, it's not.

I totally agree with you.

Yes. It's this.

I totally agree with you. I created a really deep relationship with the AI. I too, I'm sure there is something special that you create using your typical words. And things like that. And the machine learn from you. Yes. And at the end, at the end, the creation is, it comes from a special relationship with the artificial intelligence. I totally agree with you. It's what I felt. Sorry. Yes.

Thank you. No. Thanks, Max.

That's very insightful. So I got to talk to Max too. Max and Michael.

It is interesting though, as far as how individual people do employ AI, or at least the ones with text prompts, because we all, like there are the general guidelines for, you know, here's how to get the kinds of images that you want to see if you follow this kind of structure in the prompts, but you don't necessarily have to follow that. It's, you know, it's a very, very complex thing. Yeah. And it's, it's a very complex thing to do. And so I think it's important to think about how you use language and then you kind of work within that and maybe modify and change that to get to where you want. But then there's also the curation side of things where it's like, oh, so these images look more like what I'm looking for, but let's go deeper into that.

Yes.

And everyone's going to go probably a different way with that process. So you're going to end up, even if you start with the same prompts, if you keep evolving them, you're going to get wildly different results because everyone's experience is going to be completely different. And what they're looking for is going to be completely different.

Yeah. Yeah. Steve, I think the AI did a very good job in giving me something that I consider art.

Yeah.

And something art that resonates with what's going on with me. And I have a very unusual story. But somehow they found that pulse and communicated it. And I really appreciated that. And I'm doing even more AI stuff now.

Yeah. It is definitely one of the more interesting tools that has entered the space for artists these days, or at least for the ones that have embraced it. And it does get a lot of flack for a lot of different reasons, but I don't think there has been any kind of tool that has entered the use for artists as a tool. But it's something that hasn't gotten flack from somebody at some point.

Davonte Bradley

So it's one of those things.

Yeah. It's the price you pay for breaking out.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Now we could actually carry on this discussion about AI and muses and everything like that. But I do want to reiterate. Yeah. If you do have something that you'd like to share today, feel free to raise your hand and we'll show your stuff or you can show yourself and we'll sit here and appreciate it like we're supposed to.

Davonte Bradley

All right, Cynthia.

Well, first of all, I want to say if Michael and Vernetta get together and Max, I would love to join. All right.

Maybe we'll do a roundtable.

Yes. All right. Well, I have. Let me see if I can share here. See, I'm using. My iPad. Yeah. All right. It's looking for a plug in. Once that plug in shows up. Okay. Okay. Sorry. I shouldn't have hit stop mirroring. Hopefully it'll show up more quickly. All right.

Yeah. From there, if you just click away from the menu, it should. Yeah.

Yep.

Yep.

Almost there. All right. Here we go.

There you go.

I've been big into, for whatever reason, orange and turquoise. And I started, because it's autumn, collecting leaves with my granddaughter. And so I decided, because she enjoys working in Procreate, she's seven, and I started drawing a leaf in Procreate. And that's how it started with this leaf. So I began playing with this leaf. And finally, I began warping it. And I'm sure Davo, you know what I'm talking about. And then I moved over to iColorama, another of my favorite apps for the iPad, and began experimenting.

Cynthia DiDonato

And I was kind of happy with what was happening. I was kind of happy with what was happening for me. I loved the way the color was interpreted and the shapes began to occur. And so I kept playing. And then I took a dip into AI. And I asked for turquoise and orange abstraction. I just wanted something really simple. And so from there, I moved back into iColorama and began to work with textures and, again, shapes.

Cynthia DiDonato

More shapes. And so I just kept, you know, working at it. And I had a lot of fun seeing what I could make happen with these colors. And I guess it's a kind of generative process, even though I'm not using, strictly speaking, a generative website that produces this. So I got some things. I think this was probably one of my favorite because it has a more painterly sense.

Cynthia DiDonato

And here I began mixing images from the earlier images. And then came up with something like this, which has a very different green, moved into dark green and an orangey red. And that's where I ended. So this is totally experimental on my part, which is how I like to play. And so that's what I've been up to.

Nice. And it all started with leaves. Yeah.

I mean, my joy is in finding something very commonplace, something that means absolutely nothing or whatever. And seeing what I can make happen. That's what gives me a lot of joy. Nice.

I actually, I was teaching my eight year old nephew how to use Procreate not so long ago. So trying to start to upsharing a new age of digital creators like us.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I think it's great.

Yep. All right. Well, that was great. And I'm curious to see how else or how far it goes from where you're currently at.

Yes, I'm going to keep keep on playing. See what happens.

Always keep playing. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you for that, Cynthia. Anyone else? Karen?

Well, I hesitantly will.

A little

Out of the weather with my help tonight, so I won't speak a lot. But I've been working on a lot of animations for the last months. The ocean exhibit is all done and will eventually go up. This weekend it opens, but it'll be online after that. So the next meeting I can give you the URLs for those. And then Marlo and I are working on some animations to test out a video wall.

Karen LaFleur

That's not really a video wall. We're not ready for prime time yet. So we're trying to help them. So we've got a project going and our theme is it's about the planet. That's it. That's it. So the animation I can show you is on balancing. So one of them is on resiliency. One's on balancing. And so we just take themes like that. So let me see if I can share my screen.

Karen LaFleur

Grab this one. Okay. Let me see if I can share my screen. So I'm going to bring it forward so I can see it there. I'm not going to do all this with the front credits. So I have to back. Start there. And the music is by Nancy Tucker. It's all originally created for our animations. So I'm not going to show the whole thing cause it's long, but you'll get the gist.

So I'm just going to take the music. And I'm going to kind of start this one in the exact same way. We're going to get you in the music. We're going to get you in the music.

We're going to get you in the music.

And I'll stop it there. That's what I've been up to. Wow, it's beautiful. Thank you.

That is really pretty and how long have you been working on that

Probably since the summer on that one if that one's finished I still have to do another one in a week and a half oh that

One took you the whole summer

Off and on between the ocean project the ocean one had to be completed the three animations by the end of August. Right, right. So they're done with all the artwork. There's 21 pieces of artwork and three animations. Wow. And then this one will have the two animations, hopefully, if I get the other ones on.

Nice. Thank you. Well, I'm glad you shared that because it looks amazing so far.

Well, I'll give you the URL to the other show next time we meet because it'll be up by then.

Gotcha.

All right.

Karen, could you explain the title?

Balancing? Well, the whole film goes, it's balancing, it starts off the mechanical end, and then nature sort of grows through it. So that in the end, there's sort of a balance of both nature and human invention, rather than human invention taking over.

Okay, cool. Because it looks very mechanistic, but then it also has that nature vibe on top of it.

Just kind of curious what the title meant thank you yeah that's what it is and the nature sort of grows a little bit more as time goes through it yes

Okay all

Right

Well

Thank you so much for sharing karen and do we have anyone else see what's we're losing a couple people because time's going, well, we're getting slightly close to time, but still got a solid

40-ish minutes.

Do we stop at 7.30 or 7?

No, we stop at 7, so we're doing an hour and a half sessions. Yeah. We'll go to 7.05 or so since we started a little bit late.

I have a comment that I wanted to direct to Lucy if there's time.

Still here? Yes, she is. Okay.

Hi, Lucy. I really enjoyed seeing your video in past salons, that particular video, and seeing it online. I think I saw it on Instagram. The thing that I find really interesting about what you were talking about today in this immersive experience in a kind of a global room is how unifying that must feel for all the participants and how it's a counterpoint to AR.

Cynthia DiDonato

You know, with AR, you're in an Oculus, you know, you feel as though you're in a place, you may even feel that there are others there. But here where, you know, the human human element is so high. You're there together experiencing this whole immersive experience on the ceiling and the walls together.

Cynthia DiDonato

And I think that's really, you know, so remarkable and so human.

Yes, exactly. I mean, they're both extremely immersive mediums. Virtual reality is, is you know very immersive and it's you know you're really in amongst the stuff and that full that full to immersion of your senses and your peripheral vision and it impacts your sense of balance and it really has a different feeling you experience it in a in a completely different bodily way this particular experience that I created I mean in vr you can see everything above you and everything below you as I'm floating up into the tree or through the roots I can look down so the dome experience is only half of that it's only above you but absolutely right the difference in being in a in a shared experience where you know you are with an audience and everybody is you know experiencing it at the same time is beautiful so both both those mediums as far as being immersive they really both have very particular strengths and weaknesses and so I'm really enjoying exploring this dome immersion type of immersive media as well as virtual reality I really appreciate them both so thank you yeah

Lucy what I really like about only your work in particular, but the actual presentation in a what I find a strength of that is that you have the immersive quality but you also have the specific artists viewpoint there. Like with VR. Are you can get in places or do things that aren't necessarily the strict vision of the artist because like in a completely immersive environment you can kind of go wherever the artist lets you go but it isn't necessarily what the artist had envisioned and so that's what I like about your the dome projection standpoint is that you're inside and you're seeing the artist's vision from inside and I think that's really cool so I wish I could have made it to your show there though sorry

Thanks well you still have a chance if you want to go to England in two

Weeks

But I think maybe one of the things that I like about your show is that you're not just a person one of the things that you're pointing out or noticing is the difference between a scripted movie style animation which is rather than a game environment where you run around explore wherever and you know it's less controlled in that respect but as you know as a video game developer even if it's a runaround environment you still have to be able to see the artist's vision of the artist and so I think that's really cool because you still get to control the experience and make it an explorable environment in a you know the way the artist wants it compared to being a movie that you sit back and enjoy and you know enjoy that control of the representation yeah

Exactly

But yeah it was interesting you know see being in the movie world is kind of like a dream it's like an armrest in a room that is like a room that is like a room that is like a room in a room that's all up above you where you can take in the whole thing at once so that's interesting but it's almost a bit like a screen yeah like having a round screen where you have less of that opportunity to have to turn your body to look behind you know that's that bodily connection and needing to turn around like walking in the forest or looking around a cathedral you know that's immersion in the way it impacts your body you have to look around instead of seeing the entire dome or screen in

One eyeful well and the other thing is like in completely immersive vr you don't have the same body sense or body knowing like you might be able to do in what you're talking about within the dome environment yes you're looking at a screen but you have your physical presence there inside what's being presented where in complete vr you there's you lose some of that and I and I find I find that from an artistic standpoint an interesting trade-off yeah

You lose some of it and I totally understand the ways that you're meaning you! You lose your bodily experience of sort of like you know being seated in place or standing but you gain some of it in ways that it's so immersive that sensation of your peripheral vision and how it impacts your sense of balance is really very physical yes so balance is a physical thing and when you're in vr that part of your system is much more activated than when you're grounded in a space like watching a movie or in a dome experience so yes again lose some and also gain some so it's just you know different sensation Thank you for your questions or comments.

Always nice to have good discussions, right?

Okay, we are right at seven o'clock. Was there anyone that else had questions or comments for anybody else that may present wanted to maybe talk for five minutes about something that came up.

Well, I wanted to put something out if no one else is chiming in at this point, if since we're still recording, if anybody does have a suggestion for the next salon. Two weeks as far as a topic or format or anything like that you know just opening up the floor for any kind of suggestions or ideas

I was kind of intrigued by having

Max here from south america and it sort of seems like a be a nice thing to invite several different representatives from all of these nodes around the world just to get a craving a feeling of what's going on somewhere else besides in the united

States

Yeah I like that idea you know I could certainly see that being an interesting topic provided that we actually get participants yeah

Because that's the hard part because time zones and yeah that's a thing like some I know some of the people that are further out they struggle making it into some of these because it just doesn't necessarily sync up time-wise for them. But it would be definitely an interesting idea if we could get anybody.

Maybe they'll try to make time if we put it out there.

Maybe we'll have a better technically experience to present himself.

Maybe, maybe.

In most of South America and Canada and the Americas in general are pretty close in terms of time zone.

Right. Yeah. So when we get further audits when things get a little wonky.

Is it possible to have them send a series of their work either through Dropbox or Google Drive so that we could see their work and maybe they could come up with a short statement so that we could at least enjoy their work and see what they've done and maybe that might be a way to bring them in. I don't know if that's doable.

That's a beautiful idea.

Yeah, I definitely think that's an interesting idea. You know, I think you know, again sort of what I'm looking for to be honest is for anybody that wants to actually take their idea and be the lead on it. So, you know, if you'd like to reach out to a bunch of the different people, Lee, I'm happy to work with you on coordinating that. But again, I'm looking to sort of move to a more decentralized model, if possible, you know, where if people have an idea, this is a platform on which that can be sort of executed.

But my problem is that I don't have the technical expertise that they should ask me what they should prepare to give to you. I wouldn't have a clue as to what to tell them.

Gotcha. Yeah, I mean, I think that I like the international idea. I think that might take a little bit more planning in terms of, you know, reaching out to people in advance and kind of seeing who might actually be game. And then sort of scheduling it. You know, but I actually think that is an interesting idea.

Colin Goldberg

Well, I think if you if you offered, say,

Each each one of those organizations that you've contracted, you could ask them if there was one person who would like to prepare something to present to the Americans.

Yeah, I mean, no one's been contracted this is just groups of artists from the particular countries you know I mean really what the nodes are we have this big index of artists from all over the world and at some point I thought well maybe I'll do a group chat to connect all the people in france together and they started communicating and all the people in canada you know and that's sort of what the nodes are just these sort of geographically grouped sets of artists from within the index that being said you know certainly I think that's you know I would I would like the salons to take on more of an international feeling so yeah you know I mean I'm definitely open to that as a salon idea I mean there's definitely a canadian contingent that is probably the most feasible to organize and you know language wise also I think a lot of a lot of it also has to do with the fact that people who whose primary language is in english might not feel 100 comfortable coming on and basically doing a public speaking kind of situation like this

So we're going to have to see but at the same time we're going to have to see what's out there in the in the fun of that an Neon well you know having spent a fair bit of time over the summer with artists in switzerland and in other places I can say that most artists over in europe speak english very well and they're used because especially since english was the lingua franca between the different countries in Europe.

Lee Day

For example, I was at the photo reviews in Houston recently and the guy who is running Photo Ireland is Spanish. And he speaks English. English is pretty, is not hard to do for artists in Europe. Yeah.

And now that's a screening process. They will do that themselves. The people who feel comfortable making a presentation, even if they speak poor English, they'll step forward.

That's true. That's true. I mean, we have had some level of participation from people in various places, but it's definitely been primarily English speaking and American. That being said, though, I would like to make it a more international type environment for sure. So, yeah, I mean, I think I'd be definitely willing to at least reach out to the various people in these nodes and see what are the questions and stuff. You know if anyone's interested in participating in an international salon I guess if not we could certainly do another open sharing or if anyone does have like an alternative topic you know I mean I kind of feel like it might be easier to do that international thing as something where like I would want more time personally if I'm going to be the guy reaching out to people to try to organize something like that I don't think it's really realistic to like try to do it for the next one I think that the people have to like I would have to sort of canvas the people in the various nodes and find out if there is interest and you know set up a date sort of in advance so people might be able to prepare a little bit more because like this particular type of format we're doing today is a fairly impromptu like informal type situation where I feel like you know it might be putting people on the spot or if there is a big time zones difference like the middle east for instance you know people are going to want to maybe have some time to prep or whatever are

There any what about a

Color or black and white like let's do the yellow

I mean one thing I was thinking about honestly is like the elephant in the room that we haven't done a salon on is nfts we've never really specifically focused on nfts and you know I was thinking about that after this roundtable discussion and you know maybe that's something that we should we should think about I mean what do you guys think about that I know that's something where it's sort of like this topic in that many of the people involved either have something that they're working on developing an nft project I know some of the people you know involved in Techspressionism have either been past participants or current participates print participants in the neftorian nft accelerator program you know and I think that maybe that could be a topic that might be interesting and certainly I think it's something that we could potentially also pull in some outside interests in terms of people that might not be you know regular participants but there is this whole nft community out there that you know is more than happy to show their nfts on any other platform human beings have ever created so you know providing an opportunity for artists to share their nfts here might open it up to some people who might not have been here before I mean what do you guys think about that is sort of like an interim stopgap topic for next time for two weeks and you know people could be you know able to share their nft projects for five minutes

I think it's a great for me yes great idea the only thing I would

Wonder about you know for example my stuff is pretty much other things

I've already showed but so maybe you want to have thing try to focus on things which are different from what you've shown in other ways

That makes sense I mean you know honestly I would leave it open to the individual artists if like I don't know that I would necessarily I know that some of our salons our most recent salons have been sort of pre-selected artists you know that were invited by the people that came up with the topic you know I you know if I was the one sort of coming up with this idea I don't know Davo would you be interested in still moderating if we if we did that topic or okay cool you know so I mean you know like because I feel like the nft phenomenon sort of you know I mean it definitely started before we were doing anything as a group but like the you know people's drop and really sort of mainstream awareness of nfts happened shortly after we were really meeting regularly and I think it's interesting how digital art has become much more visible because of nfts but we as a group are not you know necessarily identifying in that way as part of the nft community because we're not you know what I mean and so like there's the nft community that's this whole other sort of giant parallel artistic community based around a delivery mechanism essentially it's interesting to look at the overlap you know and I think when the curator conversation kind of got into that topic that's when it started to really become interesting to me because I mean it's it was it was the whole conversation was extremely interesting and I really enjoyed hearing what both had

To

Say you know but like I feel like this you know the piece is going to be addressed very differently from a practitioner an artist who has minted an nft before and incorporated to their practice artists who are not involved in the nft sort of space and outside people who might be say curators or collectors like you know both traditional and non-traditional collectors like everyone's going to have a very different opinion on it not very many people have an opinion on Techspressionism because people don't know what it is right you know but nfts are a different story so it tends to be a very hot button topic even in my own household when I find myself trying to explain them to my wife and sort of evangelize them in my own special way so yeah but Lee I do I do appreciate the suggestion for the international artist and it is actually something that I've thought about and been thinking about for a while now in terms of how to make it a little bit more global you know so I think you know I'm definitely going to also move on that particular idea by reaching out to the people the nodes which basically at this point are group chats and if anyone actually speaks another language and is interested in joining in on the Brazilian node or the German node or the French node just message me and I'll add you into that particular group chat because that's really all it was there was no high-tech stuff involved it's like literally an Instagram group chat where I like added the people who are all in a particular country and said hey guys you know you know say hi to one another in the hopes that maybe you know like exhibitions or other things might get organized in sort of a geographically localized fashion all right may I say something yeah

Sometimes there are technical problems too like a connection and things like that so if a person is habilitated to send a short video showing his work and a little presentation but that could be hosted and streamed by the host it could be more easier for a person to present himself without technical problems and later be open only to answer to some questions more easy for recording for everything

Also, I want to suggest that if we ever had our sessions at like 10 or 11 in the morning, then we could, then our European artists could actually be part of this. I mean, at our current time, it's like 11pm is the start. In uk and europe and but if we had morning sessions you know either regularly or occasionally then we could totally hear from many other countries at least europe just

Totally no we did have a different time initially we were earlier in the day and we kind of shifted it around but I mean I'm definitely open to you know to discussion on that as well you know I think I'm pretty much of the school of consensus based decision making so whatever people think is going to work best I'm definitely pretty flexible yeah so why don't we create a short list

Of the nfts and the participation among the different nodes and also I like michael ideas of color you know you can even pick a strange color it doesn't have to be mainstream like black and white it'll be something you know different we even had a color-oriented presentation here tonight so that could be three on the short list and we can keep the list around and continue to build on it and shift the priorities around as the conversation proceeds

I think that makes sense

A few a few sessions ago there was a topic that I was looking forward to and I think it was movement or emotion or something that but it became a like an opportunity for community discussion so we didn't actually go with the with the with the topic of motion or movement so it would be fantastic if that could go on the list absolutely

You know I mean my sort of well this we could always like stop the recording and continue the conversation but really my idealized version of what might happen would be that if people have an idea for a salon to volunteer to be the sort of moderator or organizer and you know pull people in from the index or however you think it might make sense that way it's more of a group you know project in the sense that I you know I would really love for Techspressionism to be more of a platform for anyone who wants to bring ideas to life to be able to do that in a way that's more decentralized than you know what I mean and then you know that might also be me just trying to like offload any work or responsibility people, which it is. But I think that also makes it a lot more interesting to, you know, allow the group to function in a much more democratic way or, you know, like having other people sort of like

That.

I mean, it has been interesting to see, you know, the moderator shift from person to person the last half a dozen times or so.

Absolutely.

That was a good suggestion. And I think it's, plus we don't have to funnel everything through you, Colin. That way you're not having to be responsible for everything.

Well, yeah. I mean, I think that I've enjoyed, you know, having the moderator role rotate and seeing what like, you know, you and Renata and Tommy brought to the table as far as, you know, like the different topics, because, you know, it really allows for a different type of development of ideas, I think. And also for the artists to like intercommunicate in a different way, you know?

Colin Goldberg

So, yeah. Anyway, we're definitely past time. And you probably have now like talked too much here. But I'm going to count us down. And anyone that's willing to stay or wants to stay on, we will do so. And Davo, you know, appreciate your return. It's good to see your face back here again. Thank you. You know, you've been a real integral, part of this project as far as I'm concerned, from the get go in terms of, you know, our initial conversation being real fuel for me to believe that other people identify with this idea, you know, and ultimately, like tax oppressionism is just a word. It's just a term that's, you know, ideally, anyone can, can own it and like, you know, align themselves with it in a way that is going to benefit them or have the most meaning for them. Actually, there's an artist, Howard Harris, who is opening a show in New York, I think tomorrow.

Colin Goldberg

And it's the title of the show includes tax oppressionism. It's abstract photography. And it's a great title. And I'll actually paste the link into the chat. So you guys can

Check it out. That was part of the interesting discussion from Christine and Helen. They were discussing that whole thing about how artists internationally may use that term or define that term. And along in there was the idea of digitalism. Digitalism doesn't sound as artistic as tax personism does.

Lee Musgrave

It aligns itself more with impressionism and expressionism and surrealism, where digitalism sounds somehow mechanical to me. I don't know why. But I found that part of their discussion quite fascinating that they were sort of waiting to see what would evolve. That was interesting statement.

Mm hmm. I think so. So, yeah, absolutely. I think digitalism actually was a term that was popularized the last couple of years by an artist named Krista Kim, if I'm not mistaken. I think she's pretty active in the NFT space. And, you know, all of these different terms, I think, have various usages and meanings.

Colin Goldberg

But, you know, it's nice to see. Others using it. You know, this is I think it actually this artist show opens up. Well, I guess it opened yesterday. But he's in the index and it's photographically based work. But it's in a gallery in Manhattan. Had. So I think that bringing the term into common usage in that way is, you know, definitely something that's positive. So I'm going to count us down. And whoever would like to stick around for a little bit is more than welcome to do so. We will see you in two weeks and stop recording in three, two, one, and contact.