Salon 37 // Diana de Avila & Patrick Lichty
Video Description
Diana de Avila is an award-winning artist who has acquired savant syndrome and synesthesia. Her artistic gift arrived suddenly and explosively after a relapse of multiple sclerosis and worsening traumatic brain injury (TBI) in 2017. These injuries drastically affected her vision and cognition and compelled her artistic emergence and the creation of a body of work numbering over 1200 pieces of digital art.
She creates cosmic digital art rooted in fractal geometry, where quantum physics, chaos theory, and divine order converge. All this without any formal training. Diana creates digital art in both moving and still formats. She has found her largest collector base within the world of Crypto Art and NFTs. Diana is the subject and co-author of her new book Soldier, Sister, Savant, which shares the story of her artistic genius and samples of her art from 2017 to early 2021.
WEBSITE: https://www.dianadeavila.com/ INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/_dianadeavila/
Patrick Lichty is a media artist/designer/animator, theorist, and curator of thirty years who works in areas of mediation, virtuality, experimental media, media archaeology, and activism. He has an MFA in Computer Art from Bowling Green State University, and is currently an Assistant Professor of Mass Communication at Winona State University. He is known for his work solo and with collectives such as RTMark, The Yes Men, Pocha Nostra, Second Front, Manifest.AR, Shared Universe, NPTeam, and editor of the journal, Intelligent Agent, produced by Christiane Paul. He is an Alpert/Calarts Fellow, Honorable Mention for Ars Electronica’s Golden Nica, and has had work included in bienniales including the Whitney and Venice.
WIKIPEDIA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Lichty WEBSITE: https://www.patlichty.com/ INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/patlichty_art/
WHAT IS A TECHSPRESSIONIST SALON?
Techspressionist Salons were conceived as a modern counterpart to the Surrealist salons of the 1920’s, in which artists could meet informally to socialize and discuss ideas. Our Salons, moderated by artist Davonte Bradley, are a place in cyberspace where Techspressionist artists gather every other week to hang out, share their work and discuss matters relating to art and technology. These meetups are self-supporting and are organized by the Techspressionist artist community.
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Synopsis
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Salon 37 (February 16, 2022) features Diana de Avila and Patrick Lichty. Lichty presents his work▶ 31:08, including "pixel boxes" from graduate school▶ 41:25, the cover piece for the Techspressionism 2021 exhibition▶ 51:44, images from the old town in Limassol▶ 1:02:13 and a 3D scan he can turn to any angle▶ 1:12:42. In the discussion, an audience member asks about his remarks on Kandinsky and the spiritual in art▶ 1:23:01.
This summary was written with AI assistance from the recording’s transcript and reviewed by the archive’s editor. The timestamps link to the moments discussed. Please check details against the video.
Participants (1)
- ▶ 31:08 Patrick Lichty Winona MN USA
Note: no moderator is credited; the speaker list was generated with AI assistance and may be incomplete.
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Cite this session
Techspressionist Salon 37, “Diana de Avila & Patrick Lichty,” recorded February 16, 2022. Techspressionism Video Archive. [DOI pending Zenodo deposit]
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Unattributed
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome everyone to our Techspresh Newsome virtual salon. I am your host, Davonte Bradley, fellow artist and friend to a lot of you people now. With me is Colin Goldberg, who coined the term, and our wonderful, well, one of our presenters for today, the other one's running a little late, but Deanna is also in attendance, going to be presenting.
Unattributed
And just want to welcome all of you. Again. So if you are new around these parts, and our little corner of the internet and Zoom, we normally conduct these meetings pretty, pretty open on the flow. We do, we start things off with usually two presenters. During the time that presenters are presenting, we ask that you keep your mic muted and save your questions until later. Which you... You can drop your questions in the chat. I'll get to them then.
Unattributed
Or any other comments, doesn't have to be a question. And then we'll have a discussion about said presentation after presentation's done. We've been doing this for a minute now since September of 2020, right? 20... Yeah. No, wait. Was it? My sense of time is messed up because pandemic happened. Has it been? 2020, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't seem like it, but yeah. We've been doing it since a long time. I remember those first ones. Yeah. Yeah. But it doesn't seem like 2020.
Unattributed
Anyway, we've been, we've been at this for, for a while now, but this is a really fairly close knit community that I've come to love. And quite a few of you have come to love it as well. And yeah, that's, that's it. That's kind of all I wanted to share at the start. So with that being said, Deanna, are you ready to go? I am ready to go. All right. Do you have the floor? Thank you.
Unattributed
My name is Deanna Diavola. Can you see this first of all? Give me a... Yep. Okay, great. I'm Deanna Diavola. I am a digital artist, an acquired savant, and a cynist. What is acquired savantism? Some might know, some might not. But basically I received my art ability overnight. I had never been an artist. I'm getting ready to celebrate the fifth anniversary of a multiple sclerosis relapse and TBI injury that, I think, resulted in this fantastic art gift.
Unattributed
There is a doctor by the name of Darryl Treffert. He's the Rain Man doctor. And he talks about people, savants, having abilities that they never learned. Or we know things that we've never been taught. My savantism arrived with this crazy group of images. I have worked on a book in my library, and I've been working on a book called The! My co-author is on tonight, Wilma Davidson. And we produced Soldier Sister Savant, which actually shares my story of being in the military and onward and my accident and the art gift.
Unattributed
Through the eyes of Cassini, a lot of my art, I would say 90% begins with fractal geometry. Fractal geometry always plays some segment. I tend to... I tend to mix fractals up, work with formulas, work with images, and get a lot of different results. This was a fractal manipulation with the name courtesy of Cynthia DiDonato.
Unattributed
She won a contest. We named it. Splinter Man is actually an NFT and was part of an NFT collaboration of 50 international artists. Eames Swirly. I can't remember his name. So I don't know. And I don't know your name. The with perception. Having MS, vision is affected with me hearing and the sense of touch. So I try to recreate a lot of it. This was actually created in the midst of an insomnia bout.
Unattributed
And it's a fractal recreated, manipulated, and recreated again with 30,000 individual curves. Curves. This is another fractal recreated. I love the bright colors. They I tend to exaggerate color texture. Synesthesia, if you're not familiar with it, I have it, but it is a crossing of the senses. So for me, sound produces color.
Unattributed
And shape. I tend to work with experimental things. I'm trying to bring out some glass and a little bit of texture. Texture again. This was a fractal somewhere along the way, and I'm going to use it. I mean, I've probably used it in other pieces. I'll use many different pieces of my artwork to make new artwork.
Unattributed
Fractal geometry using self-similarity. And since 2017, I've created about 1,200 pieces of artwork. I never knew what an art exhibit was. I've never taken an art class. I've never taken an art class. I didn't know what fractal geometry was. I didn't know what a fractal was. I've never taken color theory.
Unattributed
It's truly a mystery to me and the world. There are about 300 of us in the world. Fractals. Texture. Texture. Presupods. Congratulations to everyone who participated for today's workshop. Look forward to seeing your artwork next week and fall through your way I imagine something sounds. It's like reverse synesthesia. I'm trying to bioengineer my senses in a way. But I've had so many MRIs, and I've always imagined what do those coils look like. So an image has always come to me, and I finally decided to create it.
Unattributed
The next bit that I want to show is what I'm going to do. I'm going to stop the sharing. I'm going to do a short video because my art goes into movement. And to show you. I also want to mention that the audio that you hear with this is my creation as well. With, I do get some synesthetic sounds. And I try to recreate. So this is actually a piece called Pegasus.
Unattributed
And it, you know, you'll hear some abstraction. To me, it's not about the music theory, as much as it is about the, just get a feeling. Thank you.
Unattributed
Thank you. And that's really what I have. I could show a lot of work, but are there any questions? Questions or no questions do whatever anybody wants no questions how are we supposed to pick your brain no if there's time you can send me questions yeah oh well I think we actually do have some time in between your presentation and because I'm not sure pat's here yet so let me see. No, he hasn't arrived quite yet. So that being said, if anyone does have any questions for Deanna, feel free to ask away. I have a question, Deanna.
Unattributed
It was lovely work. It's really great to see that. I was fascinated by the very last piece you showed, the hummingbird. I wondered how you did that, what app you used. I used a combination of it. I used the Adobe Cloud. You know, for a lot of my work. So that was Adobe Arrow and Adobe Dimension, I believe. And I might have used Final Cut.
Unattributed
Or that no, no, no, I might have used what's the Adobe version of the Premiere, Premiere. Thank you. I've got so many different. But the Adobe Arrow is one of the big ones that you can use for the augmented reality, which is amazing and a lot of fun. Okay, cool. I'm not so familiar with that tool set. So Yeah, that's really cool. For a lot of my work, I it goes end to end Adobe. But then I throw in all kinds of strange applications, anything I can find my get my hands on kind of work with experiment yeah I mean I know some of the adobe products but adobe arrow that's new new for me yeah I try I try anything new that they put out and just kind of hunt and peck and create cool very cool and you meant your work primarily on known origin diana or diana Known origin.
Unattributed
I know it's known origin and foundation. And I have some on OpenSea and Nifty, NiftyFi. That's another one that fractionalizes NFTs. But I mean, I just had somebody I did an NFT project with SketchUp that Splinter Man, he had $160,000 in crypto stolen from his wallet. It and splinter man was stolen too so I'm not anxious to you and that was from open c I'm not really anxious to go outside the other yeah known origin and foundation unless I can get on to super rare somehow it's a little bit less wild should I show some of my nft screens experience does anybody anybody interested sure sure sure yeah I went quickly yeah I was yeah and if you want to drop any of your links to you know your for the nft platforms that you're on to your profiles in the chat that would be cool too yeah actually if you go to my main website let me go to how do I okay this will get you to clothing because I then.
Unattributed
And I have a shirt on right now that I've created. We did a book that's on there. And then the NFT marketplaces you can get to. What did I do? Can you see the NFTs there? Yeah, we're looking at Noon Origin right now. Okay. I'm not sure what. Yes. So everything's showing up the same, but I've got a moving a moving version and a still version, several different pieces. And I was just invited in December. I had tried three times and it's worth it. You know, I got two sales within the first week. I think it's been a little rough since.
Unattributed
And then foundation, that's where I have most of my collectors. And I've got 75 NFTs there. But it seems things are a little quiet I think but I've gotten into some fun 3d I mean you can actually I'm just getting started but I had created this pop can collection that people they were actually buying them on open c they could add them to their video games that was my to create something that would be usable in video.
Unattributed
I've also done clothing. And this is made by a company in Le Galleriste in Montreal.
Unattributed
And they're so good. So, I mean, I've got many different artworks. There's dresses. And this piece is actually a generative assembly. That is a generative work. That I created. So a little bit of everything. All right, yeah, it looks like we have some questions. So I think first off, we'll go with Sherry.
Unattributed
Deanna, I thought that was a lovely presentation. I really liked the way the music worked with your imagery, I thought was really very strong. And I wondered what is your background before you got into art? What were you doing? A school psychologist, metrics, and then I was a web developer. So I was a web developer with General Electric, General Electric, global, and I worked with single sign on. So it was more architecture.
Unattributed
Yeah. And then I became an entrepreneur and sold a little, I invented a little pouch to carry an asthma inhaler. The MedReady Puffer Tote was called and we sold them I developed MS and I had to retire in 2005 or so. So, and then it's kind of progressed. So that's brought me to art, which is a gift. And it's so therapeutic, really therapeutic. Thank you.
Unattributed
Thank you for your question. Looks like we've got Tommy with a couple of questions, actually. He said, do you view it? Do you view your AR work through a specific app? The way I do it, so ARROW, that's how you can create and view, but I tend to make videos out of them, and then I'm using a couple different things, but Adobe ARROW and Adobe Dimension I've used. And that's...
Unattributed
Yeah. You got it? Yeah. I do it on my iPad a lot. Davo, you'll love your iPad when it comes out. Yeah, when I finally get it. I've never really used the Apple products before, but I guess there's a first time for everything. I got to tell you that I am using everything I've created, I've done, well, recently, because I just got it, the MacBook Pro 16-inch M1 Max.
Unattributed
That can render 3D on the fly and it's a great app. And I had an iMac 27-inch that was chugging along and I finally killed it and I had to replace it. But this thing is insane. Recommend. I mean, if I don't break it, because I push them hard, it's not even making a sound. It's great. Nice. All right. Tom?
Unattributed
We have another question from Anne. So, did the synesthesia come back? Did it come with art or did you have it before? No, it came with art. Synesthesia came with art and I thought I was going nuts. I'm in my pool and I had gotten out of the hospital because I had an MS relapse, lost vision in my left eye and a lot of vertigo. And as they put me on steroids and it made me kind of crazy. They do that when they're at really high doses. And I was in my bed. I was in my pool and I never had the desire to create art or didn't know what was happening to me at the beginning. But colors.
Unattributed
Colors. Amazing. But along with the colors, the compulsion to create. And that compulsion hasn't stopped. And that's a common feature with acquired savantism. It's a very strange. It's like an OCD that comes with it. It comes from brain injury. And it just requires creation. It's a good outlet but nuts.
Unattributed
All right. Well, thank you for that. Anne. And we have two questions from David. Could you briefly explain what fractals are and why do you think you didn't have this art ability in you before? Okay. Fractals. Fractals use fractal geometry. I've had to study. I've had to come up. Because I was creating fractals before I knew what they were.
Unattributed
Fractals use self-similarity and recursion. And they repeat, repeat, repeat. You can see fractals and shorelines in the cosmos. And like a nautilus seashell if you saw some of my work. They're very familiar. We're used to the patterns. And how do I know I didn't have this art? Because I'd never done it. I couldn't color. I still can't write my name very well. There are real motor deficits. And I couldn't translate my art ability to a canvas.
Unattributed
It doesn't translate. I'm a digital artist and I'm focused and I'm kind of in that lane. So. And that's very common. It's a mystery. But I was evaluated by the top doctor in the world. The Rain Man doc. It's nuts. I'll ask our resident wizard here as well if he has another explanation for fractals too. Mr. Price. Do the explanation. The real one.
Unattributed
No. Michael? Yeah. Yeah. Fractals. Putting you on the spot. I'm running a little slow after my surgery. Sorry. I apologize. No. That's fine. I forgot. So you were asking about fractals? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I think Deanna was explaining it pretty well. I mean, it's an area. It's a specialized area of mathematics. That's in a larger realm called chaos theory. And chaos theory deals with higher order mathematics.
Unattributed
And what really distinguishes it is this thing about feedback loops. So that helps to generate these repetitious patterns. And as Deanna was explaining, you can see the patterns. They're not exact replicas. When you look at things, you see very small variations. But when you look at it globally, you can see it's being repeated, but with small changes. And when you look at like the nautilus shell and other formations like that, that's why this has taken so long to develop.
Unattributed
Because early on when this was looked at, it was really seen as a very complex thing. And it was seen as not very important. Because our mathematics has all been Euclidean for several thousand years. If it wasn't straight lines and circles and things, it was hard to understand. And it wasn't really until the advent of computers that we could really explore this. And Benoit Mandelbrot was the one who really kind of brought this forward. And it took a while to really get accepted. But now it's seen in so many different areas. It's still complex. I mean, it's still really complex. But like some radio circuit boards have been created using fractal patterns. And there's just a lot of new applied science where fractals are really showing efficiency in design, which nature needs because nature is about efficiency.
Unattributed
So, yeah. All right. Enough of mine. No, that's great. Thank you, Professor Price. You're welcome. So I didn't have any math background. Somebody I can see somebody had talked about if were you good at geometry before the savantism? No, I never even took algebra one in school. I studied music. But by the time I got to GE, I had to teach. I did take some statistics in college. And I really excelled in statistics. But I've never taken a geometry class.
Unattributed
It's all I mean, I have textbooks that I've had to catch up to the math. And it's been fun. And Wilma, who's on, I can see her. We are in touch with a synaesthetic expert. Her name is Dr. Barrett Brogard. And she's at some point going to do a functional MRI of my brain. But she did. She's done several books. The genius mind, I think, is one of hers. And she just she worked very closely with Dr. Trevor. But she seems to think that when I had my I had a motorcycle accident in 84 that caused it. My helmet cracked in half and I had my brain injury then. But it's gotten worse over time. But Dr. Britt believes that I probably had. I developed some of that giftedness in an area of math at that time.
Unattributed
You know, but I never knew that because that was years ago. I'm kind of catching up. It's exciting and interesting. Along those same lines, still talking about fractals. Lucy wants to know, it's like, do you code your fractals? You software or both? Both. Yes. Both. J wildfire is how I like. But I use Chaotica. I use Mandelbulber. It's any new thing I can find, too.
Unattributed
And Colin wants to know, do you have did you have any favorite artists before your self-advocacy began? I didn't know any artists. I know it's it sounds pathetic. But when I think of it, imagine being dropped on the moon and you're not an astronaut. You know? And it's like, where's my suit? What do I do? So I didn't know artists, but I'm learning them. And I'm learning who I kind of favor.
Unattributed
And then I've learned how to appreciate art and discuss art. It's been a schooling for me. Definitely relate to that. It's amazing how many of us got started with this digital art through some sort of health problem. Oh, really? I noticed in all the presentations. It's true of myself, and it's true of, I think, quite a number of us. That's interesting. It is. Yeah.
Unattributed
Okay, so I've got two questions back to back, both about music. Cynthia wants to know, tell us about your music and its connection to your art. All right. Okay, so I come from a drumming background. I was a drummer, and I sang and some guitar.
Unattributed
I, music, it's hard to explain. It's one of my synesthetic processes that music creates shapes, and that's how I first discovered it. Music, I would play these certain songs, and within the five or six songs within the first year of my artistic gift, first year, year and a half, I was, I found myself listening to the same five or six songs, and it produced a certain kind of work, but I kind of needed the music to create, and I still, it really makes a better, better job, but reversing it, I have a new type of synesthesia that is creating sound, touch is crossing over and creating sound, heat and touch, so some of that music, which is all mine, every instrument, I created it using Apple Logic Pro X and instrument loops.
Unattributed
Yep, do I use a VR set? Oh, I'm sorry, I hopped out, but I'm going to answer that one. I tried, I have double vision, bad, bad, bad, bad, really bad vision. So I'm not able to, I wanted to so bad. Can't quite get that. I did the music. Dalton, I did the music, yeah. Dana wants to know how long has it been? I guess she's, are you asking about how long has it been since the accident, or how long has she known since, how long has she been? Savant. Yeah.
Unattributed
Okay, I'll tell you both of them. The accident was in 1984. MS was diagnosed in 2001, and I had this mother of all relapses that caused vertigo and vision problems in summer 2017, and that's when it came, June 2017. Yep. Yeah. So I hope that answers her question. Five-year anniversary coming up this summer of my art gift, and I feel like the art has gone from the blobs to now AR and doing some 3D, but I love working with the fractals and creating texture and messing them all up and using algorithms and numbers. It's fun. Yeah.
Unattributed
All right. Well, as much as I know, people's minds are stewing, trying to come up with things to ask you. In the interest of time, I think we probably need to get going so that Patrick can also have his presentation. With that being said, thank you so much, Deanna, for your time and your presentation.
Unattributed
Thank you so much. Always a pleasure working with you as well. Thanks. All right.
Patrick Lichty
And Mr. Lichty. All right. Are you with us? Yeah, I'm here. Yeah. You know what? There was, you know, there's just every once in a while, there's just that one particular little, that one thing that you want to show that you just can't find. And I'm sorry I was digging around for that. Well, you know, anyway, I apologize for being a little bit late, but it'll be worth it, I swear.
Patrick Lichty
Well, you got the floor. Okay. Well, anyway, I hope I have a couple of walls and a ceiling, too, because it's a lot of work. It's cold here. All right. So let's see here. Let me go over here and share. And let's see here. Let's start here. Is that... Okay. So this is... Giving a presentation on my work is really, really difficult at any time because of the fact that I've been working with you for so long. I've been doing it since about 1990.
Patrick Lichty
I've probably done a few thousand works. And the thing is, is that I work in about three or four different genres. I work in generative and algorithm and AI and that sort of thing and robotics. And then I work in video and then I work in performance and then VR and AR and stuff like that. Can't talk about it all. So I'm here. I'm going to kind of like get into a little bit of...
Patrick Lichty
And let's see here. I've been part of collectives like the Yes Men that were this, you know, weird activist group. We were in the Whitney Biennial, Second Front, Second Life Performance Group, you know. Let's see here. Did some things with some of the Flexus artists and things like that. So I've been around. So anyway. This is just a quick snapshot. So I hope this will be fun. I want to kind of call this concerning the spiritual and the apparatus.
Patrick Lichty
By the way, this is where I grew up. I'm not literally. I was within like two miles of this place. I'm from Akron, Ohio. I was born in 1962. And this is the Goodyear Zeppelin AirDock. And so this is the USS Macon. And it was an actual... It was a... It was an actual American Lighter-than-Air warship.
Patrick Lichty
And so they made five. They all crashed. But the thing is, is that when I was about 35, I was part of a Star Trek fan club that got the original Star Trek Galileo shuttlecraft. And we tried... We were the first group that tried to restore it in this dock. So my... I've been... I wanted to be in special effects, really. I love science fiction. My mom raised me on it. And what happened is that...
Patrick Lichty
Oops. Hang on. I thought I had a... My machine just kind of like lunging up on me a bit here. Is... Okay. You know what? I had an Atari 800 up. But what I'm going to say is that I... My first computer was 1978. Was an Atari 800. And my parents thought, oh, this is great. He needs to be a computer engineer. And they didn't see I was drawing on it. So anyway. So I got a couple engineering degrees. I decided it was driving me nuts. And then I wanted to be a neon sign maker until I found out that...
Patrick Lichty
You know, you're dealing with thousands and thousands of volts of electricity and mercury and all that sort of thing. So I quit after a couple years. And there was just one point where I was asked what I wanted to do with myself. Well, actually, I have some health issues myself. I have retinitis pigmentosa and glaucoma. And so what happens is that I was supposed to be blind at 30. And I always, you know, either wanted to be in special effects or in art. And so what happened is that...
Patrick Lichty
I said, oh, you can wait. You know, be practical. Do the thing. And, you know, you can be an artist when you retire. And I said, well, not according to the doctors. So I basically, you know, threw caution to the wind. And I said, okay, fine. I started a design studio and that sort of thing. Art and design studio. Did art half time. And then did screenwriting. And then did design for Accenture and McKenzie.
Patrick Lichty
In their educational group for a few... For about 10 years. And that kept me alive. And then I realized I needed to be an academic after the dot com crash. But about 1990, I just, you know, while I was thinking about what the heck I wanted to do as an artist. I fell in love with the first wave of avant-garde.
Patrick Lichty
You know, Dadaism and surrealism. And, you know, all these ismsies, these sorts of things. And I was actually going to do a big long thing about expressionism and kind of like how I kind of feel things go up to today. But I'm just going to say that I fell in love with one of the two schools called the Blau Reiter. Which was basically Franz Marc and Vasily Kandinsky. And so they were like really into it. They were really into the ideas of spiritual values that can counteract the, you know, the corruption materialism of Germany at the time. And this really appealed to me. And so I basically found the question to me is like expressionism wasn't necessarily emerging around the emotional but the spiritual. So considering I'm kind of a pretty darn secular person.
Patrick Lichty
Inspired by many world religions. This is a big question for me. So I started, I wound up finding Kandinsky. And while I was studying the first wave of avant-garde, you know, I found these two books. Point and Line to Plain and Concerning the Spiritual and Art. And about 1992, 1993, I just decided, okay. I just really just kind of decided to throw my entire body and heart, body and soul into art. And I just kind of locked myself away. And decided not to look at anything. I just wanted to look at any art except for reading these books. And it became the foundations of my painting. So this is one of the pieces that came out in 1993. 18 by 24 inches in watercolor.
Patrick Lichty
I did 12 of these. They, some of them still exist. And then this is 1993. I worked very heavily with actually at the time was fractal painter. Not Coral painter. But I had a lot of work showed. They had a traveling show. I traveled. I showed a lot of my work with the fractal design traveling show. And this was 1994 cover of Computer Graphics World. And so, you know, I was still trying to kind of break from this Kandinsky thing.
Patrick Lichty
But at the same time. I was living up here in Minnesota. And I met this guy named Roman Verostko. Who's part of this group called the Algaris. Who has kind of adopted me in a way. But what happens is that he used to be a Benedictine monk. Director of Minneapolis College of Art and Design. And that sort of thing. And I just really got into his pen plotter work. And this right here. If you F, F, F. You get your head around this thing. This is everything he does. All in one spot. And I asked him to be his student.
Patrick Lichty
And he said no. We're still great friends though. I'll probably see him in a couple weeks. But anyways, what happens is that it took me about eight years to find my own way. And in 2003, I had this show called Xenopher Bot. And it's like where I had started working with these little guys. They were all little rovers.
Patrick Lichty
That had water brushes filled with Sumi ink and that sort of thing. And this is the show. This was at Barrister's Gallery in New Orleans. I was living in Baton Rouge, New Orleans at the time. From 2000 to 2004. And this is so that piece over to the right there. That's called Man Machine Interface. I've still got it. I still have it. It's 9 by 21 feet.
Patrick Lichty
And the rest of these here are like 10 by 10 foot. And this is another one that's a 30 by 40. And so the red is me and the black is the bot. So anyway. So this is kind of, I was just kind of wondering, really, I called these things kind of man machine interfaces. Because the thing is, is that I've always been interested in where kind of, you know, oil painting is a tool. You know, it's a technology. So, you know, when we're using a tool, where do I end? You know, where do I end and where does the apparatus or the tool start? And where does, where is that spark of magic that happens in that tool? And how does that spark of magic come into that creative impulse?
Patrick Lichty
A couple of side things. This is something I did in grad school. Colin probably remembers this. These are called pixel boxes. They're made of, you know, those cheesy color changing LEDs. These are kind of arrays and laser cut boxes. But the whole thing is, is that they all have different timings. So what happens, you put them in a big array and they start making complex stuff. Also, Cynthia might remember that I showed these at SIGGRAPH as well.
Patrick Lichty
But, you know, I'm kind of keeping into the idea of algorithm in terms of plotter work. And then going into AI work. This is, and 3D scanning work. This is what I'm kind of doing at this point for this particular thing. These were, these were pieces that I did for a couple of shows at, I had the AI. I had the AI gallery in Berlin and sensible concepts and other at the, at the yard in New York. And the thing is, is that what happens here is, is that this was at the beginning of this thing called post internet art. In other words, sort of like what happens in art after the internet and a colleague of mine named Marissa Olson did these pieces where she did drawings from the monitor of dead media and I said well, my take on this is saying that the internet is made of cats. So, on one hand I said I said well you know you're, you're drawing monitors and cassette tapes I'm drawing cats.
Patrick Lichty
And this is another piece that I did for a show another show I did with barristers gallery got they represented me for a long time unfortunately, and in tip is the gallerist, he. He has lung cancer and is hopefully will be with us a couple more years but he just shut down the gallery. This a piece called. Predator versus predator.
Patrick Lichty
Basically kind of commenting on the idea of the fact that almost all our pets with that we have are predators or one form or another, or I kind of say institutionally, or governmentally. And the other thing is, is that a large part of my plotter work has to do with my has to do with the game, actually. So this is the latest piece that I did there so I wanted to throw that in.
Patrick Lichty
Because actually about for about a year since I've been in Minnesota I had a, I had a really bad block. And the one thing is that I'll go back to, you know, some, some more work with the game but the thing is that she's always been really good at breaking my, my mental blocks. So, I'm going to go back to that. This another from another piece of work that the game and I are working on. It's called Google Earth, in which we've been doing representations of imagery from Google VR.
Patrick Lichty
And this was just really interesting to me because you know it's like I was up about maybe, you know about 80,000 feet up, and all of a sudden. There was this, there was this menu says tilt Earth down rotate and I thought that was just really crazy actually but the thing is that Googled Earth. And by the way thanks to Brandon Gellis also for having the first major show of it. It's really kind of based on the fact that you know, hopefully until not too far away from now that we haven't been able to be in each other's countries. And, you know, and you know. Through media is really the only way that we've been able to be able to be where our family our respective families have been from and I think it's a deeply effective piece for both of us another piece of Negin is like that's I've done probably about two about 160 170 plotter pieces with various techniques and that sort of thing you know on one of these axadras like Colin has and the thing is that about a good maybe tenth of them are of are of Negin so this is an interesting you know what is that everybody you know if you have a muse you know right so this is actually a mural that I did for the United Arab Emirates science fair in 2018 2019 I forget and they commissioned me to do this and what was really interesting is they!
Patrick Lichty
I said we said we really love your robotic work and I because I've done a piece about the founder of the UAE Sheikh Zayed bin Nayan on Sheikh Zayed founder of the UAE sorry but anyway no disrespect to anybody but what happens is that there's the crown prince and there's Sheikh Mohammed of Dubai and there's the hope probe that's now there's the crown prince and there's the hope probe that's now around really a fantastic experience actually okay quick breath so a lot of this was kind of about your machines and mark making and all that and so this is now getting over into the back into the hand but the hand back into the apparatus so between 2017 and I still do these I've been doing these calligraphy pieces probably I haven't been doing so many but I used to do about one or two over breakfast and I'd do about 10 of them and I'd keep about two and currently I have probably about 1500 of them and you know I'd love to I'd love I'd love to print them all but you know who has the money for that you know so that's the thing or maybe it could they could all be nfts who knows but here's another one and here's where one of them actually got displayed call at the ras al khayma art festival and it was called alas we're And whatever I meant to say was, well, I don't know.
Patrick Lichty
I'm not exactly sure what I meant to say, but I just said not exactly what I meant to say, whatever that was. So, AI, generative adversarial networks. What I wound up doing, and I have a little bit of text on the bottom, ignore that. I work a lot with a platform that... Spaulder and Carla Gannis introduced me to, and I'd already heard about a little bit through some papers called Playform.io. So, what I did is I took two sets of 512 of these calligraphies and put them into the system, and then I generated another 256 from each of these, and then I cross-compared them, and I put them both as pieces, as groups, and then put them in against themselves.
Patrick Lichty
And what I wanted to try to do is I wanted to see whether I could do it in a way that I could find the internal consistencies of the patterns of my creative process, because they tend to be kind of subtractive and comparative. So, what happened is I wanted to take one group, churn through those, take another group, churn through those, take one set from each of those, and then compare them and see what was in common. And I wanted to see then if I could find my own, kind of like the vocabulary of my own, and what that would have been in the old 512. From this new system. And in the 20s, I did a lot of work on this a lot of work on this really long time is this lot of work that I'm doing in the art because I'm really getting an idea of what I'm doing to my own work. And I don't know what I'm doing to my own work, but I'm actually doing a lot of work on this in the case of this world.
Patrick Lichty
And I'm also doing a lot of work on this by using this little program that I'm doing to my own and this is this what I'm doing. And I'm also doing a lot of work on this in the case of this new system. And I'm also doing a lot interesting conversation about creativity and neurology, or I'm chasing my tail like you would not believe.
Patrick Lichty
And these would go forward along with doing some, actually Playform also has, take a sketch and turn it into a painting using a style. And I would take about two or three layers and one of these and put these together. And these, I did, I think 24 of these, one of these, and this is the piece that will be in Southampton.
Patrick Lichty
And this is the piece that was the cover piece for the Techspressionism 2021 show. So the thing is, is that these are things that are very intuitive to me. You know, and I like the idea of the idea of, like, affective and intuitive computing. So something else that I'm doing with Playform is, once again, you know, in, you know, in regards to like conversations with Negin about rugs and pictorial rugs and that sort of thing is that I got, I was very interested in jacquard weaving ever since about 2000. Which is a form of digital weaving. But the thing is, is that since I was living in the Middle East for five, six years, and of course, conversations with Negin and that sort of thing, I was wondering about, you know, what would happen if I took, you know, a couple hundred, you know, Persian carpets and threw them into, you know, a generative adversarial network.
Patrick Lichty
And, you know, with different styles and different, you know, regions like, you know, from Tehran, from Isfahan, from, you know, from, you know, the Bakhtiari stuff and that sort of thing. And so the thing is, is that after running through this, I thought it was really interesting to see what would pop up. And actually, currently, there's a NFT mining project with Playform in which you can go out called ArtMine. And you can go out and pick any one of these particular pieces. And I'm using Polygon.
Patrick Lichty
So for 150 Polygon, you can get one of these and it's, you know, and it'll knock it out of the, it'll knock it out of the model. And then the thing is, is that if you get 10, I'll send you a 50 by 60 inch jacquard woven piece. And then you can get the entire piece of whatever NFT you want. So which is actually less expensive than, let's see here, 1500 Polygon is usually less expensive than my larger pieces, which is, which are 80 by 60 inch.
Patrick Lichty
So little intermezzo, couple other pieces. And then we'll get into the 3D scanning. These are some other pieces that I did. One, this is called the 3D scanning. This is called American War Rugs. In other words, if you've seen like Afghani War Rugs and that sort of thing, they have pictures of drones and tanks and, you know, basically talking about, you know, America and Russia, et cetera. I thought, what would an American War Rug be like? It would probably be some guy in Nevada who took a couple screenshots from his predator display and then had them jacquard woven. And that's what I did. So I found some predator shots of one of a target and before and after engagement and did that.
Patrick Lichty
Also, I think this was 2010. There was a group of us that I was part of called Manifest AR. And we did a piece called We Are in MoMA. And we basically were the first group to do that. And we were the first group that invaded the Museum of Modern Art with augmented reality. So the thing is, is that it keeps happening time and time again. And this is another piece I did with a guy named Mark Skwarik, in which this was in Bushwick in Brooklyn, in which I was basically talking about drones and bombers and that sort of thing. But, you know, in other words, dropping love instead of bombs, which is I think we would much rather have.
Patrick Lichty
One other piece is this was a piece I did for Monorot Al Saadiyat called World Without End. And basically it was my Arabic take on The Little Prince. I had been doing 3D scanning of... Of... Of... Of Arabic architecture and... And screens and such. And I put them together in a way that you would go around... That you just basically go around the world and you'd be... Actually, the thing is you looked for a mushroom, you didn't look for a rose. But nevertheless.
Patrick Lichty
But that was up for about three months. Okay. Next piece. I've been trying to... I've been doing a lot of 3D scanning. Ever since about... I've been trying to do 3D scanning ever since about 1998, but I've only been successful since about 2017. And so I'm now calling this Away From Keyboard. I just started doing this about a month ago because of the fact that I realized that so much digital art that we make, we do... Stuck in front of a computer. Stuck in front of a keyboard and a monitor and that sort of thing. And that I love the fact that this body of work of 3D scanning is done out in the wild. It's done out in architecture, in the built environment. It's in nature. It's all these things. So I first started doing this actually 2017. I was doing scans actually of cats in Dubai in cat cats.
Patrick Lichty
And I was doing this in a cafe. Which is kind of embarrassing. But the thing is, it had to do with a story from Islamic... Some Islamic stories about the idea that... Now the Prophet had a cat named Muezza who was... You know, he loved so much that he cut his arm... I mean, cut the arm off of his robe.
Patrick Lichty
You know, instead of waking his cat. And the thing is, is that I said, okay. I was trying to just figure out a way how to get my head around being in Arabia. Because I was really having a hard time about trying to figure out how I was this mid-Eastern... I mean, Midwestern kid in the Middle East. And this was kind of the way that I kind of got around it. The next piece... That was commissioned by Nation 2.0. Which is affiliated with Dubai culture called the confinement spaces. Had to do with basically as we were confined during the 2020 isolations in Abu Dhabi.
Patrick Lichty
You know, you start getting a little bit nuts, you know. And so what happens is that I started going around and doing... Using my cell phone. And it was at the time using something called Display Land. Which is now gone. But I think it just got bought up by Discord. And I went around. I started scanning the environment. And started making experiences about... Actually, there's an online VR experience about this. And this is actually the Louvre in Abu Dhabi. Actually. In one of the first rooms. This is... Anybody ever... If anybody's ever seen a movie called Lord of War. About a guy named Victor Bout. That was played by Nicholas Cage. This is actually the plane that was depicted in that movie. And it's in a Northern Emirate called Umalquain.
Patrick Lichty
And I scanned it with my cell phone. And the thing is, of course, since I couldn't get above it... You know, of course, I couldn't scan the top. And this is what I got. And I love the broken screen. I love the brokenness of it. This actually got picked up by a project called Edition 365. With the British Journal of Photography. And this was sold as an NFT. So... Which was nice.
Patrick Lichty
This is another piece from confinement spaces. I can put out a URL later about how to log into it. You can go in through a browser. You can go in through a headset. And by the way, that's the actual plane, actually. So, it's... You're actually not allowed to take pictures of it because it's falling apart. But that's okay.
Patrick Lichty
Okay. AFK part 4 in Cyprus. This is Negin and I. And we were working on a project called Through the Mesh with Nimi.org. And what happened is that while we're out there, I started using the LIDAR on my iPad to start logging in. And I started working on things. And so, in December, there's basically the Persian Salsas holiday called Yalda. And this is our...
Patrick Lichty
Yep. That's our Yalda table. Exactly. So, you know what? Actually, the thing is, is that, Vermeer, I will... I'll go back and I'll talk about this. I'll answer some questions as I... Yeah. After I kind of like stop my rant. And so, this is another one. This was outside our loft that we were staying at.
Patrick Lichty
And another, you know, another really interesting image from, you know, some of the places we were staying in the old town in Limassol. And so, it's such interesting architecture here. You know? And so, and the thing is, is that, well, you could put it in Blender, of course. But the thing is, is that I just basically screen captured it off of my iPad. And I'm actually doing this one as an oil painting.
Patrick Lichty
This got used for the... This got used for the announcement. And I'm actually a little bit embarrassed. Because basically, the thing is, is that... These were the rocks on the coast of Limassol that I basically just brought into MeshLab and did a quick... Let's see here. I did a quick screen capture of. And what happens is that these...
Patrick Lichty
This was just something that... You know, I just took the LiDAR on my iPad and just went at just quickly. And I'm just really amazed at the texture that, you know, I get from that. And really looking at maybe putting this into like a VR engine like Unreal or something like that. Let's see here. This is another piece. This is...
Patrick Lichty
This is... Let's see. Let's see here. Davo. This is something that we're working on for the third collaboration, sir. That this is basically called Mare City. Mare being one of the words for love is the idea that this is basically a pastiche of all the cities that we have had significant times during our time together. And this has Chicago. It has Abu Dhabi. It has Baku.
Patrick Lichty
And that's, you know, that's... That's... That's... That's kind of... That's... That's... That's that. And... I'll just say that one of these is... Is... Is a... Is a... Is a weaving, actually, at this point. So we're working on other ones. But the thing is, is Davo, we want to get going. So this was done a couple of weeks ago. A couple days ago, actually. This is the Winona sculpture in...
Patrick Lichty
In the Central Park in Winona. And it was cold. And I went out there with the lidar and just scanned this thing. And basically went in and did an AI replacement of the background with... With... With some software to generate skies. And just kind of put this together. And seems to have been fairly popular. So I'm... I'm very happy for that.
Patrick Lichty
But, you know... But once again, you know, this was another case in which, you know... You know, it was basically... I was out freezing my butt off. You know, climbing into a frozen fountain. And, you know, doing this iconic sculpture in Winona. And I, you know... And the thing is, is that I like scanning sculpture and architecture and that sort of thing of the... Of the places where I'm at because of the fact that it... It somehow gives me kind of a groundedness, you know, to things.
Patrick Lichty
And... I think one thing that I will end up with is that this is one of the things that I do for... For Negin is I do poetry. And also I play about five or six instruments. And that's me... This is me on guitar and also the voiceover. And so I'm working with this... Generative adversarial network called VQGAN.
Patrick Lichty
And the thing is, is that I'm feeding it source images plus the poetry to create this particular... This particular work. And... Sorry, I'm kind of ranting on a bit, but I hope that you enjoy this. It's... I was very pleased with how it turned out. Over the mountain, a marten is flying, one from a distant land.
Patrick Lichty
It lands on her arm, leaving the smallest little mark to stay forever. What she didn't know was the bird's name and that mark were the same in the bird's tongue. Mark's tongue in Aztec. And... Nightingales feel invisible, but are more real than you can ever imagine. Little nails over skin trace lines of flight, of light, around the tree of life.
Patrick Lichty
Alma falls into her hand, the most sacred fruit. While the fish circle the frogs. And the little bird, purple swallow, marten banash, squeezes softly and burrows into sleep, waiting for morning. She knows she will never find her master again. Let me see if there's anything else. Oh, by the way, I teach at Winona State in Minnesota in creative digital media. So I'm kind of the VR and interactive guy there and that's some of... That's my logo for the group.
Patrick Lichty
So anyway, that's kind of the thing there. So anyway, let me go through here and just kind of fish through a couple things and just say, I'm sorry that I didn't get into some of the questions immediately, but let me just kind of bounce through a couple of these things here. Like, what do I consider a successful 3D scan? Well, the thing is, is it depends to me on whether you're trying to be accurate or not.
Patrick Lichty
I was part of the glitch movement in Chicago that, you know, basically the whole glitch thing kind of started up in Chicago and Amsterdam in about 2010 and I was kind of part of that crowd. And so the thing is, is that I believe very much in the creative, you know, of the emotional quality. Of the glitch. And so what happens is, is that a going end and having these imperfections and having these really just completely broken things, but they're just so interesting to me.
Patrick Lichty
You know, this idea of having hung out with flexus artists a lot, this idea of just sort of like letting things be as they are. And appreciating things, you know, kind of like how John Cage was always about, you know, about processes. And letting things happen and chance and that sort of thing. And just sort of like saying, scan the damn thing. And, you know, and just, and just, you know, and look at it and see whether you like it or not. And this is, you know, kind of how I am. And then, you know, the thing is, though, is that if I want to be doing something, I think when I was in charge in 2016, 17, I forget when I started, maybe 15. I forget. I'm getting old. But what happens is that I was trying to do accurate, you know, architectural scanning. And I found out it was really hard. And so I decided to go to artistic scanning.
Patrick Lichty
And I found, thought that was just a lot, a lot better. And then also a 3D scan as opposed to a photograph. I like, one thing I love is I love, I did a lot of second life. And we did, I did a re I did a recreation of the, of, of the last supper. But the thing is, is that, you know, it has a, it has a UPS truck in it. And so the thing is, is that I feel like when we go between, you know, like from this, this world we have out here into the digital and then back and we keep going back and forth.
Patrick Lichty
You know, there's, there's bits that are, that are missing. And actually for the show that I curated in, in Limassol. And so I found out that there was a lot of, there was a lot of pieces that were missing. And the thing is, is that, you know, as, as we go across people, as we go across borders and that sort of thing, we leave pieces of ourselves behind. We, or wherever we go, you know, there's, you know, there's, there's like these, these translations and that sort of thing. Negin can talk about that more, far better than I, I don't want to speak for her, but this is how I, I, I saw it. But, and I love that metaphor.
Patrick Lichty
And so the thing is, is also the other thing is a 3D scan. I can turn it and I can get any angle on it I want and then capture it. And, you know, so the thing is, is a photograph, you get what you get. And so that's, that's kind of that. Let's see. Well, you know what? I'll, I'll kind of say to Colin's things that strong images. Don't always require a lot of labor. I want to go back to Picasso. When somebody asked him, you know, it's like, how long did it take him to do that? Painting is saying it's, it's a matter of saying that there is a hell of a lot of labor. He says it took him 42 years and four hours to, to do that painting. So in other words, there's a, it's, it's like a Zen monk learning how to do the circular Enzo. You know, it's like, you know, how many years have they been doing that?
Patrick Lichty
And of course they could sit down and they can bang one. Wow. You know, it's like, you know, it's like, well, that didn't take you very long. It took you, it took you 30 seconds. Well, yes, but I've been practicing this for like 20 years. So I think that's also the other thing there. So, yes, you've been called out.
Patrick Lichty
And what, what, what do I use to scan? You know, it depends is that I've used, I've used, I've used a connect. I've used a connect. I've used my iPhone. I'm currently using my iPad. I'm using a LIDAR on that. You know, like, hold up. Like the Xbox connect that connect. Yeah. Oh, okay. You know, I knew, I knew people were doing interesting and fun things with them, but I don't, I didn't think I knew any of them in this, in this room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that, and that sort of thing. So I think I've kind of gone through all the things, all the, all the things. And, and I, I hope that, and, and the one thing is, is that I, I just want to kind of say, you know, mention, of course, you know, is that my thanks to, you know, Davo and Colin for, you know, keeping this going. And also the other thing is, is that also my indebtedness to Negin for also keeping me going.
Patrick Lichty
So that sort of thing there. So more questions. We do have time. We do have time for them. So if anybody wants to shoot them, might as well. It could also be the case that people are still ruminating, which does happen. Yeah. I do tend to be a bit of a machine gun. So I apologize. Patrick, are you still continue? Are you still considering pursuing that doctorate in art history? And if so, maybe you could tell a little bit about what that's all about. Not really.
Patrick Lichty
Okay. Can I ask a question? I have a question. Oh, so we have Renata and we have Cynthia. I think Renata was first, I think. Yeah. So we'll go Renata first. Tommy? No, not, not yet. Okay. Yeah, go ahead. Renata. Yeah. Can you explain just what part of your job card project is real? And what's the NFP? What do you mean? Well, it sounded to me like some people who buy your NFTs of the rugs will actually get that my rugs aren't, aren't, aren't, aren't NFTs.
Patrick Lichty
Oh, okay. If they, if they buy 10 NFTs, they get a rug. Okay. So the rugs are gifts. It's unlockable content. Okay, great. But has there ever been a real rug made with, with, with fabric or fibers? Yeah. Yeah. There, yeah. And, yeah, I, I, I've, I've done probably about 20 or, or, or 30 of these, but I mean, those particular rugs I've done about five at this point. One's in the, one's going to the Verostko collection at, Latrobe University. One, one's already, I think in, in, and, and in Michael Spalter's hands. And there's another one going to the, Computer Arts Society, collection in, in, in London. Awesome. Thank you. And there's also one at the Boca Raton Museum.
Patrick Lichty
Very cool. Yup. Patrick, thank you for your presentation. I very much enjoyed watching your journey, in art, digital art. You mentioned that you used your computer to create these rugs. Your iPhone and iPad to do some scanning. Was that 3D scanning you did with your iPhone and iPad? Yes. So you used one of the apps from the app store, I'm assuming. Just the standard Apple one.
Patrick Lichty
Oh, you mean the one that comes with the phone? No, well, there's an Apple app, you know, for the device that have a LiDAR, it's just called 3D scanner. Great. It's, you know, so that's the thing. But the whole thing is, is that I'll be, you know, on one hand, I'm being a little bit cagey in the fact that these scans are a little bit worked.
Patrick Lichty
In other words, I get the scans out, and then, of course, you know, I take them into 3D Studio Max, or, you know, or I'll take the screen captures, and I'll bring them into Photoshop. And it was like, these are, these are pretty, these are pretty worked images. Thank you for sharing. And we got a question from Sue. No, I don't. What, you know what, actually, from March to early May, not sure. I'll let the community know if there is, you know, but I don't, I don't know right now. Sue, are you asking because you're going to be in New York City during that time period? Because I know you were planning on. Visiting. I'm going to be. Oh, you know what? You know what? I, you know what? I'm, I'm, excuse me.
Patrick Lichty
You know what? Of course, there's going to be work at the Southampton Center for the Arts. Excellent. And are you going to, is everyone going to be at that? Because I want to come meet you guys. So, a quick announcement regarding that while we're still recording. Awesome. So, the start date has been pushed forward a week to the 21st because it was decided that the Easter Passover weekend was not the best bet, which I think is a good decision. So the tentative and hopefully definitive reception date will be the 23rd of April, which is a Saturday from 6 to 8 at Southampton Arts Center. But the drop off dates will stay the same. As, as Negin was, as Negin was mentioning is that there is, there is some of our jacquard work at the Greenleaf Arts Center currently in Chicago for, for the next month in a show called Be Mine, which is, I have the first plotter drawing I ever did of Negin and then we have some of our, some of Negin's jacquard work.
Patrick Lichty
And that's, that's there if you want to go there. If you're out in Windy City and you want to go see that. Oh, thank you. So, you know what, actually Tommy it isn't it isn't printing and it's weaving so in other words basically one of the best places in the US is a place called Magnolia editions and that sort of thing it's like it's out it's on the west coast and that sort of thing is that, you know, Chuck Close and I both used used that and there are a couple other ones that are a little, a little more or less expensive and that sort of thing and also and Spaulder has been doing a bit of it too, and there's about there's a few sources you know it's not hard to find.
Patrick Lichty
But it's not printing it's weaving. You know what there are DIY looms. I can't remember I think it was. I think it was. I think it was Margarita Benitez was making one, a long time ago but we kind of, you know, I was. Let's see here but that was that discussion was before I went to Arabia. And I never really knew where she was going to with that and the thing is that honestly, do you want to build a loom with a servo for every pick that you're, you know, raising and dropping, and that sort of thing is that. I think Tommy does.
Patrick Lichty
Okay. Yeah. Okay, fantastic. Do it. In a studio apartment under my bed. Yeah. Well the thing is like with the, you know like with the with the plotter stuff. You know I use these like these delta bots with belts and that sort of thing and so what happens is like, it's kind of like two motors with a belt, and then weights and then the pen holder in the middle. And I've got, I've, I have machines that can go up to like four meters square at this point, you know, and the thing is I can I just have, I just have to expand the belts, and that's an end and find a place that's big enough to do the stupid thing and, you know, and not have my school yell at me.
Patrick Lichty
So, I have a question. Sure. Okay. So, I was really impressed with the way you talked about Kandinsky and the spiritual and art and the reading and I think we all should be reading more, I'm saying that for myself, I should be reading. Do you see, I mean I look at the 3D forms and in some ways, they are beginning to look like Kandinsky.
Patrick Lichty
Okay, you'll just have to text that to me later. I mean, you said art. Yeah, I mean, I, my favorite. My favorite book is art and theory 1900 to 2000 is by Harrison and Wood and Blackwell, or a great, great, great press but what's that but it's like, it's like, I'll just say here here's later tard here's Clifford still here's he's kind. And the one thing that I always kind of say is that one, one thing that I always love to kind of say about. About. About. You know artists, you know, who why you know who kind of get quoted as they write.
Patrick Lichty
You know, and that's, that's one thing. So. So can I get to the heart of my question here, please yeah the Kandinsky thing keeps coming back doesn't it. Yeah, so I look at the 3D scans and the one that you said oh this is this is just rocks you know that kind of came apart in some way, but it's very Kandinsky like.
Patrick Lichty
So do you feel yourself, maybe going back into that space again, or is it just so in you that it's going to keep popping out. Well, you can sit consider the Techspressionism is still life I can, I mean the thing is that it never went away. As if you if you look at the if you if you look at the, you know the plotter work and things like that it's that's point in line to plane. If you look at the you know the company. If you look at the color work that's concerning the spiritual and art it's net. In other words, basically Kandinsky wrote him. When I when I studied that stuff it wrote itself into my operating system, or baked itself into your cake, and I can take out the ingredients. Well my cake is pretty baked.
Patrick Lichty
Okay, thanks. Great. All right, Patrick. I know we're at 705 so we're a couple of minutes over, over time. But let's give Patrick around applause to me just real quick murals is like I showed that one mural that was that was that was a mural I did with the delta bot. So anyway, that was a real quick anyway thanks I wrote, you're interrupting your applause geez guy.
Patrick Lichty
All right, thank you so much. My pleasure. Great presentation. Patrick. All right, folks, we are coming down to the end of our little salon. That does not mean it's completely over those just the end of the recording period after the recording period is our quote unquote after party that we like to engage in. After these meetings.
Patrick Lichty
But until then, I just want to thank you all for attending today. Thank you all for your questions, your participation and, you know, just seeing you all. Thank you all for coming out here and sharing your lovely faces that to those of you that can see your lovely faces anyway. And I'm sorry I was a few minutes late but the thing is it was like that. It was that it was that big installation shot that I wanted to find and to me that was really important to kind of show that show that kind of scale. I'm not sure anybody's gonna give you a hard time about that. Thank you. All right. Well thank you so much for your service as always running the show. Great job.
Patrick Lichty
Moderating, and also thank you very much to Deanna and Patrick for presenting, and all you guys. Everyone gets an applause. Yeah. All right. All right everyone thank you so much for attending. And I will see you next time. So we're going to sign out, and 54321. 54321. And we're out.